The Sleep Is A Skill Podcast

012: Tara Youngblood, Chilipad CEO & Co-Founder. Author of Reprogram Your Sleep: The Sleep Recipe That Works

Episode Summary

❄️ Have you ever woken up in a sweat in the middle of the night? Then this is the podcast for you. Tara Youngblood and her husband first created the Chilipad cooling sleep mattress pad to solve their sleep challenges and have since created a movement in the sleep arena. Their cooling mattress pads and weighted blankets help support a robust circadian rhythm by aiding in lowering core body temperature 2 to 3 degrees each night. Today, due to lifestyle challenges, indoor cooling obstacles, insulating mattress & bedding materials, and hormonal fluctuations, consistent temperature reduction at night is no longer guaranteed in our modern society. Not to mention that Tara’s “sleep recipe” approach is something that we can fold into our sleep optimization methodology. Guest Bio: Tara Youngblood, Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer at Chili Sleep and Author of Reprogram Your Sleep: The Sleep Recipe That Works is a highly regarded international speaker. Tara has extended her expertise to a wealth of high profile platforms including TEDx, Skookum Tech Talks, and National Sleep Foundation’s Sleep Show. Learn more about Chili Sleep (use codes below to get a discount): sleepisaskill25 – 25% off chiliPAD sleepisaskill15 – 15% off OOLER

Episode Notes

In this episode, we discuss:

❄️The backstory on how Tara and her husband invented the Chilipad

❄️Explains why nocturnal body temperature is so crucial to regulating the sleep-wake cycle

❄️From a historical perspective, how is the Chilipad mimicking how we used to sleep?

❄️Specifics about the functionality of the Chilipad - are there certain thresholds by which this product works or doesn’t work in variable environments?

❄️Details on the Ooler and its design to mimic our natural circadian rhythm by achieving the coldest temperatures throughout the first half of the night, and slowly warming up as we wake up

❄️Hormones and sleep temperature

❄️What it takes to achieve optimal levels of deep sleep

❄️Tara’s “Sleep Recipe” (learn more about it on her TEDx talk in the show notes)





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Episode Transcription


Welcome to the sleep is a skill podcast. My name is Mollie McGlocklin. And I own a company that optimizes sleep through technology accountability and behavioral change. Each week I'll be interviewing world class experts ranging from doctors, innovators and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Let's jump into your dose of practical sleep training.



Welcome to the sleep is a skill podcast. Today's episode is with the co



founder and CEO of chilly sleep now if you're listening to a podcast around how to improve your sleep, it is likely you have heard about the chilli pad. And if not, it is an invention that helps to cool you while you're sleeping. And we do speak a lot about circadian rhythm at sleep is a skill so it's likely that you know that reducing our temperature at night is key to getting optimal sleep. So this episode is all about going a bit deeper on that topic why this is so important how this works, what are some of the things you can expect to see with your sleep and if you're tracking your sleep, how this could make a difference and really, for many people act as a real game changer in their the quality of their sleep, so a little bio or background on today's guests is about Tara Youngblood again, co founder and CEO of chili sleep and author of reprogram your sleep. The sleep recipe that works is a highly regarded international speaker, Tara has extended her expertise to a wealth of high profile platforms, including TEDx, the National Sleep Foundation, sleep show, and scogan TED Talks. Now her website is www sleep geek coach calm and of course, you can Find all kinds of information about her chilly sleep. And we'll be providing more information in the show notes including a link to get a discount on the chilly sleep pad, the littler, the weighted blanket any of those if those piqued your interest and are something that you'd want to test out, they do also have a solid return policy so that you can really kind of no risk with at least giving it a test and seeing what it might do for your sleep and your sleep scores. So let's dive in more to today's episode and understanding a little bit more about the really big importance around modulating your temperature with your sleep. And welcome to the sleep. It's a skill podcast. Tara, I'm so grateful that you took the time to be able to have this conversation today around sleep.



Yeah, I'm so excited to be here. It's clearly my passion



clearly Well, I love that you said that so that because I was actually gonna say my first question to you is to dive in to hear a little bit more around the origin story as to how you came to create such a remarkable and transformative company in the world of sleep optimization.



Yeah, so at its most basic level, so Todd uncle invented the waterbed and Todd nine, Todd's my husband and business partner, co founder and we've brought hundreds of different products to market so chilli pad actually started out of we both slept at different temperatures. Climate Control for seats in cars was coming out and driver and passenger can have different temperatures are like well, we need that for the bed. So it was seemed like not very sciency just practical of how can we just let them thermostat better between the two of us because Todd likes to see cold and I was always climbing into bad wanting to get warmer. So it was kind of a battle of the thermostats. But you know, something happened in 2008 weeks. lost our youngest son, Benjamin. And when that happened, my sleep the depression, grief that followed, really destroyed sleep for me and, and although here we are selling asleep product, I wasn't able to sleep. And I needed to. Yeah, my background is in science. I'm a physicist. And so like they have to figure out how this works. I can't have this broken. I'm working on fixing my mind and my emotions, but sleep has to be something that I can fix. And so the Epiphany really wasn't a trade show of feeling very hypocritical, saying here have this great sleep product. And I figured out how it worked for me and I really thought about it as my recipe. It kind of matches well to sleep as a skill. But my sort of how I frame it probably goes back to sort of the baker in me but I need to have a recipe and it has something that I can go back to and even if I make choices to not, and essentially follow that recipe like I'm out late and I'm having a drink with my friends while playing Last one I know it should be, I still know what my recipe is. And I am able to accept the consequences because I have a sense of what I'm doing and why and what's going to happen as a result of it. So that's where that power of knowing what what's your recipe is important.



Oh, I love it. I haven't heard anyone use the recipe analogy. And that's so well said. And I also do respect and hear what you're saying about going such a real big chapter in your life and processing all that and your story is so relatable to so many. I really hear you in the navigating of getting that back on track grieving and all that goes along with that and so much of that how important sleep fundamentally is for that process. And when that is disrupted, so many people have that loss of power. So I love this sense of a recipe for yourself to be able to get back in the driver's seat around your sleep. So one, I acknowledge you that you're able to not only make a difference in yourself, But also in the sleep for so so many other people, and such a really remarkable, I was wondering if you particularly as far as your background as a physicist that's so interesting, maybe helping to educate us on why is this relationship around temperature so powerful to regulating our kind of sleep wake cycle?



Yeah. So again, you know, part of that journey of figuring out, I alluded to the fact that I want to climb into bed and I want to warm up. Today's recipe does involve, we have a weighted blanket, so I have a weighted blanket, and then you know, I warm up I want to feel comforted and sort of balance some of that anxiety. It's way less today and maybe more managed, but it still exists. And so I'd still want to do that. However, once you get into the middle of the night, your circadian rhythm or your chronotype, which sort of drives when that is, is all trying to lower your core body temperature by two degrees, which doesn't sound like a lot in the scheme of the world, but that that's your heart and lungs. That's your inner body is trying to push out and be two degrees colder in order to get to that deep sleep level. And that's really hard when you consider we have these nice foam mattresses, these comfy blankets, we've basically created an insulation around ourselves. And we're just like an engine, we need to put off that heat and just like you would wrap your car and insulation and expect it to be able to function properly. The same happens for sleep. And so just like a radiator works for a car, our product does that same sort of thing, where it helps manage the heat load underneath your covers in that sort of mattress environment. And it makes sure that you stay thermally neutral to cool, especially in that first half of the night in order to get deep sleep. I'm



so powerful and I love that also from a psychological level your call out around how you've been able to transform your relationship around anxiety and yet it's still there. It's not like it ever just goes away. So that's so great. You're able to call that out because things like, like, I got the opportunity to try out your weighted blanket, which is so wonderful, it does really have that sense of sort of inexplicable this sense of why I feel so grounded and you know, so that that conversation is really helpful for all of us to remember that there's no arriving at some sort of ultimate state of peace of mind. It's a journey and a process so these things can help support that. Yeah, yeah.



Cuz, you know, mental health, it's become a really passionate issue for me. Because, you know, obviously, it was like, Oh, well, you had a good excuse to have depression or you had a reason, but you don't necessarily need a reason and, and all of us fall into that trap. It doesn't really matter who you are. And every single mental illness is attached to some sort of sleep or lack of sleep, suicide rates among 25 and under is only increasing. And I really feel like you see studies now where it's tying that to lack of sleep. This conversation about Ongoing mental health. It's not that any different than maintaining your body and health and fitness other ways. And we kind of leave that out and sleeps a big part of that equation of making sure that you know, sleep helps your physical body. But the mental state is really, really important and sort of gardening ourselves for healthy mental practices is really important.



Yeah, absolutely. And I absolutely have consistently gotten the sense that your company, this isn't just sort of like, okay, we created this product. And now we're done like I've from both you think I originally had heard about your senior husband posting about his or ring stats on Facebook or group, you know, just like clearly in the game of this optimization process, and it has a real curiosity on how to improve this. And of course, that mental health aspect of that is so crucial in there. And I know you guys do a lot to give back some of those topics as well. So you know, it's just Really walking the talk. And of course for, like you mentioned suicide, overall mental health. And then of course, just on a physiological level, so many things get impacted when our sleep is disrupted. And then when it's when we're improving that we can see so many benefits, recovery wise, performance wise, and a number of other kind of pervasive levels. So I was hoping we could also just get into understanding some of the the processes, because often it's a skill, we'll take this back almost to like the blueprint of our hunter gatherer days. So how it was before versus how it is today. And I've heard different people make analogies with chili pad and how this can actually kind of be more versus like, Oh, come on, we need all these gadgets to sleep. Like how natural is that? But actually, I've heard a few arguments that I think would be cool to talk about, that this could be more likening to how our sleep used to be as whenever you talk more about that?



Yeah. So if you're really curious about it, Jerry Siegel. UCLA did a study on hunters and gatherers tracked them for over a year, and found that actually, although light is a very important piece of the equation, temperature was actually what was driving them to their sleep states and when they would sleep, and the fundamentals of this, again, if you're super curious, Clifford Xavier out of Harvard first coined the term sleep switch. And there is a sleep switch in your brain, it is triggered by change of temperature, those neurons in your brains then release melatonin. What I like about this is it's located in your hypothalamus, which is your unconscious part of your brain, your heartbeat, your breathing, all the things that do you do without having to think about them. This is where that's located. So when you think about the other interventions, I feel like the first sort of Wow, in my mind about temperature is unlike a diet or fitness where you have to show up you have to decide you have to have willpower. You have to make it happen. temperature, at least from our product perspective is you set up And then it does it and it talks to your unconscious brain. And it does it while you're sleeping, which is another hard place to always make change because you're hopefully sleeping. But being able to match that to your circadian rhythm is very much like the temperature falling outside. In today's houses, we set it at one temperature. And there really isn't seasonality to that very much we think about summer being hotter. But really, our houses aren't that much hotter in the summer than they are in the wintertime, we kind of set it at that 6070. And it's in that same ribbon, no matter what in our offices or wherever we go course we're not going very far in COVID. But that means we're in that same environment all day every day. And that isn't how we evolved. If we were outside, the temperature would fluctuate significantly throughout the day. And you'll also see a little dip in temperature for your core body temperature right after lunch and that kind of mess matches that siesta time that we like to think about with naps. And now naps got a bad rap for a while. Time, but there is a place for those in that sort of evolutionary part, it's the heat of the day, you can get sunburned. It's not awesome to be outside. So why not take a nap, the whole eight hours thing is, is one of those myths that I love to sort of debunk, and that it came along with the Industrial Revolution. And so, you know, when we had to work for our factory, they had to give us eight hours off so we could actually physically be down for eight hours and sleep at the very basic level. And now we think that's what we all have to do. But there's lots of different flexibilities. You know, the most important part does go back to that sleep as a skills, your recipe, sleep recipe, whatever that is, you have to figure out what that is for you. Temperature is just a really, it's just a low lift, easy part of that equation. That's something you don't have to think that hard ab



ut. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that kind of element of the set it and forget it because once you kind of learn some of these prints, You know, there can be that hurdle in the implementation in the beginning, being mindful of your temperature environment and the having some environmental variability throughout the day into the night. And so many you know, the challenges that across the globe we're seeing currently around the lockdown but so much of this becomes like that hurdle then beginning to start thinking differently about this because we can't necessarily look to the masses on this topic because so many people just aren't in this conversation quite yet. But the more that we bring this about, then it can become really just a natural process. And I think you're so of course you had chili pad as your first this my understanding chili pad as you have your first kind of invention for with this company. And then also the ruler came after that, right, and then that kind of also fluctuates throughout the night. Is that ri



ht? Yeah, so I like to describe it. I did a TEDx talk in December. So you can always watch that as well. as sort of a recap on this yes which is tremendous. I like to think about sleep in terms of buckets and you know buckets is weird but think about it in zones. And bedtime zone for me like I described it is that weighted blanket is warming up, it is relaxing and snuggling down for my day and, and in that there's a bunch of habits that you can add in and sort of maintain and make sure you have that window. Not just a bedtime, but no alcohol and trying to not eat in those three hours. There's multiple things that are packed into that, that bedtime zone. But the the rest of the night if you think about it, this is how ler helps you manage. Once you fall asleep, you actually get to the deep sleep zone. And in here, this is this is where you want to be cooler. Like I said, your core body temperature is trying to drop two degrees. When you do that, you want to aim for those two hours of deep sleep. Now the problem with that, certainly for us that have been around the planet a little bit a few more times, is that as you get older, you lose the ability to go To great deep sleep, it just sort of diminishes. And so at 20, you're getting two hours, but by the time you're at it may only be seven minutes or less. And so they're now measuring that towards all timers locked, lack of cognitive and memory ability. All of those sorts of metrics, every disease of the elderly has some sort of lack of sleep, and specifically deep sleep in it. So that's where really cherishing that first half of the night going to sleep on time, and giving that that cooler piece really helps that deep sleep. But what you'll find is if you're too cold, once you hit REM sleep, which is not you will go through all your cycles throughout the whole night. But there's sort of a zone where it's predominantly a certain type from a deep sleep or REM sleep, and that night is kind of divided in half that way. So if you think about as your body starts to warm up, it's more predominantly REM sleep cycles. You don't get as many deep sleep cycles or not as long and so your body is going to be more sensitive to temperature and you want to warm up Laura also has a warm awake feature, which is really awesome, because we talked about that sleep switch. If cooling down will flip your switch sleep on, you do want to turn it off, it's kind of like leaving the light on, you want to have a start and a finish to your sleep. Because when it finishes, that means your body is signaled to say, Oh, I'm done sleep, I'm going to start counting down the clock to when I Next go to sleep. And it's really important to flip it off. And that's, you know, by warming up, it kind of kicks your body into that you get a release of endorphins and cortisol in a good way that kind of pushes you out of sleep wakes you up equivalent of that cup of coffee, or that caffeine boost that we're looking for actually can come naturally just by warming up by getting outside for 20 minutes or more. That morning habit is really important to get sleep turned 



ff. Yeah, no, that's so well said. And I'm wondering to also speak with different people that are that will have it that they Sleep is pretty okay. It's you know, it's fine. And yeah, I'm wondering how we could also for those people look at the difference that something like this could help make even if they're not aware of what's possible around their sleep. And I think that that's kind of a persistent problem within the 21st century is that we have this new normal of subpar sl



ep. Yeah, so you know, if you're, if you're in knowing there are people that just naturally have great sleep. That said, if you're if you're tossing and turning, if you're still feeling tired throughout the day, and it goes back to that circadian rhythm, when that dip happens, right after lunch, if you're feeling groggy, and you want to reach for some sort of supplement or things to augment that tired, that's usually an indicator as well that things may not be as good during the night as you think they are. And deep sleep is definitely one of those things where you can have a perfectly good sleep and you think, Oh, I'm okay. I'm not that tired but If you're tracking it, you might be surprised on what you're seeing with those metrics. If you are tracking it, it does show up in your HRV resting heart rate may not go as low. So, you know, those are the metrics that we use for our athletes, they need to be able to get that little bit lower resting heart rate, that better recovery and their HRV scores. And those are the things that are reflected by managing it with temperature. So you know, it's okay, maybe I'm sleeping at 80%. And that's okay. But depending on what you want to do for performance wise, we really want to try to push that upper limit to have the perfect sleep as often as we can. We need to find what that is with good quality, not just about getting eight hours. And that's where some of the mismatch is like what I was in bed for eight hours, or I slept this long. But that quality metric is really important in measuring that recovery. And there's lots of different ways to measure t



at. So well said and I was wondering for a minute we could talk about for Women's Business. Typically, particularly at different points, when they might be at different periods throughout their menstruation cycle for those women that are still kind of going through that is, of course, as we bring in this concept of earn frailty and rhythm, on top of our circadian rhythm, so being mindful of the inbreeding rhythm and all the various different points that we can go through throughout our cycle and what that does for our different hormones that we're navigating through and how something like this could help support women specifically as they are looking to make that as easy as possible that transit



on. Yeah, so you know, obviously, if you don't already know that the first you know, day of your cycle sort of post period is really a great time you're getting that rush of hormones. So even if you're going to start a diet or new fitness routine, that is definitely your most clear sailing. And temperature only amplifies that sleep is an amplifier. So if you look at it from an equation perspective, Do you have your equation that you've figured out and again, go back to the recipe of, I have my diet, I have my fitness, I have this sort of dialed in, and you put those in parentheses and you put that sleep on the outside of that, it's going to take whatever you're doing and multiply it. So until a negative is extent to so if you got negative sleep here, and you're trying so hard to keep those things that are in that box going well, it's going to amplify it and you're going to get sort of negative results, your willpower, those things like that are also affected. And as women, our hormones are the biggest sort of saboteurs in that environment. And so we find it in menopausal women most significantly when you see those hot flashes. And so, yes, clear equation wise hot flashes at night, it helps stop that, but the power of sleep really becomes if you don't have hot flashes at night, you're actually way less sematic during the day. So those symptoms of Additional hot flashes and some of those other menopausal symptoms that also happen, those are going to be diminished because of sleep. And so it's not really even just a temperature result. But the temperature result which feeds into better sleep is really amplified across everything and that happens for you know, even that PMS thing, time, all those kind of things. All of those symptoms are way better if we just sleep better. And that's, again the power of sl



ep. Oh, it's so well said I haven't heard anyone describe it like that is the amplifier and I think that's so true as far as on the positive or negative, you know, also see that for on that glucose and insulin stability conversation, how much that can really wreak havoc and all these things of course, being so interconnected, that those things can do a number on our hormones and then you know, it's all kind of comes back together but as saying it in such a method is an amplifier. I think it's so elegant because it really does it. sho speaks to the whole picture of how important and foundational this can be. So well said okay, so and then what about for our athletes among us, and so many of the people that are listening are doing some sort of tracking around their sleep, you know, most people that were that were discussing this topic was, so they might have some sort of understanding of maybe there's total sleep duration, and depending on our trackers, they might know, levels of their heart rate and HRV throughout the night respiratory rate, body temperature, depending on those different trackers. So what might people expect to see say if they're athletes and looking up things like human growth hormone during deep sleep and the difference that that can help make in their performance, and just more underscoring of why that temperature might help them get there easily out of all the recipes that we could be playing with some of the heaviest hitters, my temperature might help that g



al? Yeah, so it really goes back to the relationship Between deep sleep and that cooler temperature, deep sleep is when that growth hormone is released. Deep Sleep is when your body is going to be able to achieve that lower resting heart rate. But it's not in the other states of sleep, it really is a deep sleep phenomenon to get down to that lower resting heart rate, your HRV recovery scores, same sort of thing. With COVID. We look at immunity and some of those immunity scores of even as we look towards vaccines or whatever, that's one of the ways they've sort of measured sort of quality of immune response is how someone will respond when a with a vaccine. And the results of well slept with deep sleep are phenomenally different. It depends on the study, but you know, percentages of 25% up to 75% of people will find a huge immunity boost even just within 24 hours of really good deep sleep. So when you get that consistently over time to sleep is a long term habit. It's not a one time fix, like I got one good night's sleep, I should be good for a while. It really is that sort of overtime play that you're looking for here. And over time you're going to find your immune system, your responses, your performance improve. And we're seeing that in athletes. Skye Kristofferson did a study with the women's cycling team at the London Olympics with our product, and you know, the results were measurable in that environment, clear results, we have military and almost every professional sport having different performance results. So it's, it's not just a particular window. It really is physical and mental support and it goes back down to deep sleep is the queen or king however you want to look at of sl



ep. Oh, yeah, that's so well said. And yeah, you've got some pretty impressive kind of shout outs on your website. I know. I one of my favorite quotes is from Tim Ferriss saying of all the advice I've ever given in my books and podcasts that chili pad had the biggest impact on their quality of life. Which is a big statement from such a resource powerhouse. So yeah, there's a can absolutely and sort of this whole conversation making real immediate sort of change in your sleep results. And then I was wondering too, if we could also take a look at just the the technicality of the product of what I've found for some people is that depending on their different situations, and particularly right now, with COVID, a lot of variability in environments, you know, some people have found themselves, oh my god, now I'm back with my parents. Now I've had to move. Middle America, I'm usually in New York City or wherever, you know, just a lot of newness and navigating that and then some new problems. So some people, maybe not being in the most optimal environment, sleep environment, and maybe it's kind of subpar air conditioning in the place that they're in. And so looking to see if some if things like this can help supplement that. Do you have any kind of advice on how that can work. Is there certain thresholds by which this product is able to help manage those variable environments? And can that help kind of bridge the gap if there's a problem there for maybe ventilation and all t



at? Yeah. So you know, that's really case why is a lot of those serve traveling professional athletes will use it, because you know, the consistency that you get, hotel rooms are notorious for that you see it even more so there. But you know, when you think about it, we're basically we're just amplifying an air conditioning effect your you know, your cooling metric, we state between 50 510 with the assumption that ambient temperature is around 70. You know, the thermal electrics the way they work, you know, you're going to get about 15 degrees difference off of that ambient temperature. And that's significant enough to make a difference, especially when it's under those covers and where you are. So that's the difference even if your room temperature A lot of people will set their room temperatures even at 68 but then they cover up and then Have foam mattresses that are pushing that heat back to their body. So no matter what your environment, you really want to think about what happens under those blankets in that little space at night. And that's where, even if it's only a single pad underneath you, those are that's what we donated to healthcare workers. So we did a one for one program that we're still still running. But a lot of them had those sort of rooms, the recovery rooms and hospitals they were sleeping at, they weren't allowed to leave. And so that's where they were using the chilli pads and some of those kind of environments. They are notoriously bad for sleep considering that their health care workers in that front line with COVID the shift work the long hours and not consistent. Sleep is really exacerbated for that group of peo



le. Yeah, and I'm so glad you mention that because I have worked with a few shift workers that have found this to be really helpful for that temperature regulation concern because One they had kind of missed in navigating this on their own how much of a role temperature would play. So for some of these people that are looking to sleep during the during the day, you know, the conflicting external cues of that the body's getting around, you know, the temperature, I happen to be talking to you right now from Nevada, and it's, you know, 100 and something degrees outside. And then if I'm not mindful of different points around, kind of shifting my body if I was needing to go to bed in the day, which thankfully, I'm not needing to do, but some people have situations, they really do need to do that. And be mindful of how to help cooks their body and have but really make this a lifestyle to when that is the case. And I think that something like this can help for the recipe, you know, analogy play a real key factor in that. So I love that. And so when you mentioned the traveling athletes, so do you see them often traveling with the lawyer or the or the chili 



ad? Yeah. So that's where the advantage of traveling With a major professional sport is there carrying all sorts of equipment for it. So it is not set up to be airline friendly that is on our list that will be coming hopefully sometime in the next year. But for right now, yeah, that is that is much harder. It's probably our biggest complaint that we get is, you know, once you have that sort of temperature regulation, it is like air conditioning for your house. That's it that way, and you get used to sleeping that way. And there is a, there's a trading a long term effect. I talk about Susan in my TED talk and in my book, and she's become a dear friend, but she didn't sleep through the night for 10 years, mostly because of hormone issues. She went to her ob gyn and they said, Nope, all your hormones are fine. You should be just fine. But she literally at the age of 35 is still having night sweats throughout the night since the birth of her second daughter every single night woke up and sweats. This was able to maintain and keep her temperature and so within one night she was like well, maybe that was a fluke. I just slept the night But it's a really simple way to maintain that. And so just like your shift workers, that unconscious conversation between the temperature in your chili pad to your brain manages a part of sleep that again gets our our thinking mind our racing mind out of the equation, and just allows your body to sleep. 



mm, yeah, absolutely. My boyfriend I've been traveling before the lockdown had been traveling for around three years internationally. And so during that time, it was something where something like this, it just wasn't in the conversation at the time because it was, you know, thinking okay, well, we can't really travel with a lot of extra items and what have you, but that's super exciting around, you know, the what's possible to make this even more portable, because then now that we've been in one place for the longest period that that we've have in yours, that it's actually and we've gotten to chance to use the weighted blank the chili pad. Way to blanket and now I am starting to see the you know, just that want to then maintain that sort of consistency even on the road. So I do love and will want to stay closely connected to what's coming with that. That's exciting. And I know you have a few different clinical studies from the looks of it that you guys have been participating in what have those been looking l



ke? Yeah, well, unfortunately, with COVID, we were doing with Wake Forest University. And as the university shut down, a lot of those are on hold. But the results were trending really good. So we were doing a menopausal study that, you know, that's where sort of I shared, some of those early results are not published or peer reviewed at any weight yet. And then a veterans study, again, that PTSD, that depression when you see it as someone that's gone through it, and then tried to figure out why it is what it is, but you stay up in that sort of upper level of light and REM sleep you actually get very little deep sleep here. It's almost like your mind won't let you get back down there. Again, as I talked about that temperature hack of bypassing that prefrontal cortex mess that we all deal with whatever that looks like, and then just saying, Hey, no, you're really supposed to be here. Your brain responds to that because the unconscious obviously heart beating gets a bigger weights in deciding what you're going to do. So putting that emphasis on what's controlling your sleep into the hypothalamus instead of in your prefrontal cortex means that I can help that mental state even more significantly, because the conversation is even happening there. We've skipped it all toget



er. Oh, wow. Really cool. Well, that will be very exciting to hear to when things start coming back, presumably online, that we can kind of follow the progress there. And then kind of harkening back to what we were talking about with the hunter gatherer. I was listening to an interview with Mark Sisson and making the analogy that it can almost be similar to you know, sleeping like on their surface. We were for so many so many years and how much of a connection that cool you know ground would be versus like you've said that insulating tendency with the foam mattresses and all these things that we see right now. And then even with your other products with the weighted blanket, then then that could kind of be reflective of how we used to have, you know, some of these waited furs or, you know, heavy kind of natural elements that we're bringing, which I thought was just a really cool analogy to how even with these kind of gadgets that this could be helping bring us back to more of our kind of primal ways of being absolutely ri



ht. Yeah, we have sleep like a caveman shirts for a reason. So it is it is it is pretty fun that 



ay. That's amazing. No, I just I love that concept. Because so much of what we're trying to say here is it can be paradoxical because we're trying to say getting back to the basics, getting back to really how things were, but then how to use technology to help people Import kind of Pandora's box that we've already opened. We're not getting rid of technology anytime soon, we're not going to be likely sleeping outside in the near future. So how to make that happen within our modern society. I think this is one of those elements that can help support that. So really great. I know we've talked about a lot of different things here. I did just have one quick question just on another pragmatics How about things like as just for the layout of the bed, so just the logistics around this item. So people are like, okay, I do want to try something with this. I want to take my sleep to the next level, is it as far as all sleeping sizes, it can be kind of in the middle as you were speaking to, so you don't have to have the kind of fights with the within your unit within you know, a couple and then I was wondering, so about that and the functionality around that and sharing and then also, things like grounding maths. I don't know if you have any kind of best practices on how to use those two together because they will have a lot of people having questions around. Because they're looking to Mega biohack their sleep, and they want to know if there's any best practices th



re. Yeah, so, you know, grounding is, I think it's just a really phenomenal science, you know, so you want to have that contact, our product goes underneath the sheets. And just like you said, it can go on any mattress size, with the idea that even on a queen, you could still put a single or a king on a twin XL, those are the same. And so even if you want to try it for only half the bed, you feel like that your partner or you don't have a partner that's sleeping and you want to be on one side, although I will say pets really seem to love it. And so I won't say that. We've had a bunch of people that have had to fight their animals off of their part of the chili pad. Definitely the way to blanket in our houses like they think they've died and gone to heaven. So normally I end up having to kick the animals off first. But it'll it'll go in almost any environment. Any bed size but yeah, when you order it You do have to think about if you have a king or queen or whatever size bed you have, we call it a me Are we whether you're doing it just for you or, or the whole bed. And a lot of people, I used to really love to do this, Todd traveled a ton. And it was before I could set the schedule for ruler. But even though we have a king sized bed, I would have it on so on both sides with the dual zones, I would have one side that I warmed up on and then the other side that I pulled down on. So you're welcome to really use it any way you want. It's machine washable, it's 90 day trial, so it's definitely worth giving it a try. Sleep is definitely worth the investm



nt. That's awesome. Y



ah. And I haven't had a person yet that's gotten it and returned it. So you know, and but knowing that there's that optionality. So worst case really does allow for people to test that out. So really great information. I know you've shared so much today and I'm wondering if you could help share More just on how people can learn more about your company stay involved in because you know, I know that you guys have a lot of stuff coming and you're really innovative and looking to help people support their sleep in a myriad of ways. So how can they one learn more about purchasing or testing this out and to follow in the conversation what you guys have com



ng? Yeah, so chilly technology. Calm is the name of the website or the location of the website. We have a blog there called pillow talk. So you can track us there I am on I think all social medias just about feels like consuming, feels like but as the sleep geek, I do have a book out on Amazon, reprogram your sleep and I think we've talked about the TEDx talk. You can go and look at that as well. I do have some coupon codes. It'll be in the show notes. So please feel free to use those and stay in touch however it works. I love getting questions. So great. Y



ah, certainly I was sharing with you before we started recording that I had the opportunity to meet some of your, you know, your whole crew at CES. And it was just wonderful. Because just it's, I've had the experience of feeling very taken care of when I'd reach out at any questions or you know, anything. So I can definitely vouch for that kind of experience. So it's really, really helpful when people are trying to navigate, you know, improving this area of their lives. So that's helpful to know that people are, you know, on the case with them, and I didn't realize about that, that your online is the sleep geek, so I'm definitely gonna make sure I'm following you on those friends. So that's great. Well, thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate this is a super informative and I really am left with your passion on this topic. I know that there would be more to come and feel very aligned with what you guys are creating. So I want to continue to stay in the conversation with you guys is really gr



at. Absolutely. We're all part of the sleep team. Gr



up. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Team sleep. All right, well, thanks for helping to support your creation as has made a difference in so many people's lives. So thank you for doing that and continue to innovate along the 



ay. You've been listening to the sleep is a skill podcast, number one podcast for people who want to take their sleep skills to the next level. Every Monday I send out something that I call Molly's Monday obsessions containing everything that I'm obsessing over in the world of sleep. So head on over to sleep as guild comm to sig