The future of sleep is here! Julian Jagtenberg, Founder of Somnox, has created a robotic sleep device to aid us in our nighttime struggles. And no, this is not an R2D2 type of robot, but something much more comfortable to sleep with. Somnox was born from Julian’s desire to help his mother manage and overcome insomnia without the need for prescription medication. As an industrial design engineer, Julian is on a mission to develop soft robotics to contribute to health and well-being. In this episode of Sleep is A Skill, we discuss some of the science behind our breathing patterns, practice some new breathing techniques, and then connect the conversation back to the essence of all life. BREATH!
BIO:
Julian brings a passion for (soft) robotics to his role as Chief Marketing Officer and co-founder of Somnox, the world’s first sleep robot. Created to fight insomnia, help the sleep-deprived, and start a global sleep revolution, Somnox was borne from Julian’s desire to help his mother manage and overcome insomnia without the need for prescription medication. As an industrial design engineer, Julian is on a mission to develop soft robotics to contribute to health and well-being. With multiple designs and engineering awards, including the James Dyson Award, Philips Innovation Award, Robotdalen Innovation Award, and Sprout’s 25 under 25, Julian passionately believes in the ability of robotics to help humans live happier and healthier lives. He graduated with honors from the Delft University of Technology with a degree in Industrial Design, and also holds a minor in Robotics from the Delft Biorobotics Lab – 3mE (Faculty of Mechanical, Maritime and Materials Engineering).
SHOW NOTES:
🤖 Julian shares his personal story of insomnia within his family
🤖 How he got inspired to prototype a sleep robot-like BIG HERO SIX
🤖 What his alternatives to sleep pills are for a more holistic approach to sleep
🤖 How unique our breathing patterns are and why?
🤖 Single, taken, or just stressed this sleep robot can help your insomnia problem
🤖 No, it’s not R2D2 from Star Wars, Julian shares what the robot is like
🤖 Mediation vs Breathwork: who wins?
🤖 Julian gives us some direct breathing exercise examples to relax and to also rejuvenate
🤖 How our breath is the very essence of life
🤖 Contrary to what you may believe we also need co2 to survive
🤖 Discusses the science and cellular processes behind breathing
🤖 His favorite suggested resources
Julian Jagtenberg: Sleep Is A Skill Podcast [Video Global Fr...
Thu, 11/12 8:17AM • 45:18
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
breathing, people, sleep, breath, breathing techniques, breathe, anxiety, robot, night, sleeping pills, technology, mom, nose, meditation, insomnia, practice, stress, product, robotic, sharing
00:00
Cloud.
00:05
And welcome Julian to the sleep is a skill podcast. I'm so happy that you took the time to be able to be here joining us from multiple time zones. Thank you, thank you cannot wait to jump in for what you've created and all the topics that I know we're going to get into today.
00:21
All right, yeah, my pleasure to be here.
00:24
Awesome. So now we got a chance to speak a little bit before we started. And I know we're gonna touch on a few different things that can leave real practical takeaways for people, specifically in the realm of sleep and breathing. Now, what I want to bridge the gap on is your story and what it is that you've created in this world, you know, in that in that domain, and how this can be kind of practically applied for people in their sleep?
00:56
Yes, yeah, very excited to talk about that, I think especially now in everything that is happening. Where anxiety and stress are more prevalent than ever. The power of breathing can really help you experience a call mind again, and let that be the outcome of this culture.
01:13
Absolutely. Now, to get there, I think it's helpful to go back to the beginning of how did you find yourself in the world of sleep and breath? And what did you end up? You know, what, how did you kind of take the steps to create a product in that area to really help people are dealing with this difficulty?
01:33
Yes, so my story starts with my mother. My mom was an insomniac. And this was around five years ago. And she would sleep maybe two hours on average each night. And this was all in the Netherlands where I'm from, by the way. While my mom was experiencing the lack of sleep, I was in the University of Technology in Delft, which is like the MIT of the Netherlands. And to make a comparison, I was in the robotics Institute being inspired by the movie Big Hero six, which you might have a giant marshmallow like, caregiver robotic. And from my university project within the robotics Institute, I was wondering that I felt my mom taking sleeping pills all the time, and the doctor wasn't really able to help her apart from the pills. And I couldn't really, yeah, I felt kind of desperate that I wasn't able to help my mom. So I looked into how can I combine the thing I love which is robotics, with sleep, and potentially find some sort of solution. So diving into literature and seeing what what things can be done to help someone that is suffering from insomnia. I also found that my mom was suffering from insomnia due to stress and anxiety. She has experienced something in the past that was making her anxious at night. Let's put it that way. And I found in a literature article that actually anxiety is a very common cause behind sleep deprivation, actually, it's very prevalent write up the hamster wheel of anxious thoughts at night that you simply can't stop. And I saw that breathing is actually the only way to influence your parasympathetic autonomic nervous system, which means you can actually influence your stress and anxiety levels, while being aware of it through the breath. And in the one paper that stood out was where moms would hold their babies, and would start to mimic and synchronize the breathing and heart rate of that baby. So there was this mirroring effect. So taking that concept of breathing to reduce anxiety, and the concept of holding a baby, and that to synchronize the breath, I put that into a physical prototype, which now is a product name the sleep robot, which was my passion for sleep and my problem, that my mom was an insomniac. Yeah.
04:23
I did not know the backstory. And that is very, I knew that your that your mom is kind of a source point for that, and how great have a son to take the steps to do something about that. But I didn't realize the background and the movie inspiration. And now I see it now seeing and having the opportunity to experience my own sleep robot, then I can actually see that that inspiration in the design and experience of it's really very cool. And you spoke about this mirroring, which I think is really, really fascinating. There's lots of interesting studies. random people kind of sinking up, even if people are in the same environment with them for certain foods times, therapists with their clients, etc. But to, to really notice how the closeness of the person making a difference, you know, to have those results very quickly. So I wonder if you can kind of share with us one, when someone is so the benefits of having another person in the bed presumably would also, you know, be helpful is the same stinking process happen. And then, when you don't have someone else in the bed to have a sleep robot with you, and we can help, you know, kind of explain what that looks like. And you know, how that all functions. But one, is it helpful if you have a partner in your bed that you're able to kind of sync up with them? To? Is this something that we can do on our own? If we're trying to learn manage our breath? Do you have any kind of advice around that? So just kind of starting there around the partner and managing our breath?
06:06
Yeah, so I think to answer those questions, I'm going to refer what I found, through experience with my mother, my mom is still with my fountain with my father, right? So they are sleeping together. But actually, that concept is very different from what we're doing here, because everyone has a different lung capacity. All right, there's a difference on average between male and female, but also between what is it, where you're where you're from. So therefore, breathing is something very, very personal. So it's not the same effect that if you sleep with a partner, that you will have the mirroring effect, there needs to be some sort of synchronization and between a mom and a baby, this somehow happens, yes. But this is not necessarily the case with your partner, or, or so on. So the way this works with the with the sleep robot itself, and that is what makes it a robotic is there there are sensors in the robots that can through co2 sensors, and an accelerometer that tracks movements, it can distinguish your breathing rate. So if you are stressed, which a lot of people are, their breath is very shallow, right? It's upper in their upper chest, and it's like, yeah, so without them even knowing it, their buddy is actually running a marathon, even though they're sitting or are laying down, because their breath is is, is overactive. So what the robot will do is, he will detect that sink to that breathing pace, because you can feel the physical sensation of the falling and rising of the breath. That's what the robot is doing, and synchronize and guide you towards more deeper breathing exercises, which is something that your partner most of the time doesn't do. But that is sort of how that how that works. And how that can be of benefits. Yeah. Oh, really
08:03
interesting. Thanks for kind of underscoring that, because when I've mentioned to clients about this, it's probably out of most of the sleep gadgets I've discussed, this one gets the most question marks immediately. What is that? What does that look like? What is that doing for you? asleep, robot what. So what I kind of originally was thinking is that that would be particularly great for, you know, single people, I remember back when I was single than wanting to have just like something to kind of, you know, just that experience of oxytocin. Or just that, you know, kind of the other person with you, or, you know, something there. But I love that you're kind of pointing to the importance, or the difference of that can still make even if you do have a partner, and, you know, being able to sync up differently with the robotic now, um, you mentioned to, I think it could be helpful as we're speaking about this, what does this thing look like? Is this, you know, for anyone that has doesn't have a vision of that? Is that like a full person, you know, like, What is it? What is this they look like? So maybe just describing that, and then a bit about also, I do have questions about the shape, because I thought the shape was very cool. So when I didn't share about that,
09:19
yeah. So maybe as a starting point, let me answer for who it is. And why does it look like that?
09:26
Yes, perfect.
09:28
So I think it's not necessarily just for single people. It's actually for people that experienced the problem of anxiety based insomnia. Yes. And even though you are sleeping with someone, there are a lot of people that experience anxiety at nights, maybe you and you have that feeling of your partner being next to you. However, he is sleeping and you are wide awake, looking at the ceiling, being anxious and so forth. So it's really to help those people too. Get back into the present moment not wander in the past not wander in the future of hypothetical disasters, anchoring in the present moment through to breath. So that is who it is for anxious based insomniacs. And then the way it looks like because I think that a lot of people when they hear sleep robots, and we're kind of tinkering with the name. But it's it's not a thing that looks like a humanoid, like a transformer or something from Star Wars, not at all, very friendly, being shaped. pillow, almost, it's gray looking the size of a baby, and you hold it, it's like a teddy bear sort of. And you can feel the gentle pulsating of the breathing going up and down. And there's a speaker inside. So it also can play meditation or music, lullabies wide noise, whatever you want. And with a mobile application, you can actually set your personal preferences and check your sleep progress over time. But it's really there to soothe you, teach you how to breathe properly, because a lot of people do not breathe properly, as I just mentioned, derover, experience a call mind and make sure you do not wake up at night, or at least be less anxious and therefore get a better restorative sleep.
11:27
Yeah, really well said. And I think also with this, with this product, you're able to use it during the day. And certainly if we're looking to regardless if you get a sleep robot if you don't have a sleeper, but really working on the training of the breath throughout the day, can really make a difference to mimic how we're going to breathe in the evening, naturally. So because I do see a lot of clients that won't think about their breath at all for the day, and then they get into bed and then immediately goes into, I gotta meditate, I gotta do this breath work, you know, those kind of begrudgingly go through that process. Whereas I do like that. On the app, there's suggestions around using it throughout the day for your meditation for taking a nap. Because so much of this really warrants a full practice that begins often when we wake up into throughout our day and then into the evening. So is that something that you've found to be beneficial for people to use throughout the day?
12:29
Definitely, I always say that solving sleep doesn't happen at night. It's it's, it's it's unique to solve sleep during the day. Yeah, there's a beautiful quote that says, The night is the mirror of the day. And he's hersa. And actually, if you have a stressful meeting at 12am, it can already have an impact in the middle of the night, because that thought that emotion is still stuck in your body, that the tension distress. So breathing, I think is the perfect stepping stone to make sure you are more aware of what's going on in your body and in your mind. Because meditation apps have been so popular lately. And I think a lot of people try to meditate, they do it maybe five times 20 minutes a day. And then they break the habit. It doesn't work because it's so hard to be silent for 20 minutes and just be waiting there with your thoughts. That's that's super scary. And I think breathing is easier. It's it's the it's it has the same benefit as meditation. But since it is just counting the breaths, it gives you something to focus on. Yeah,
13:38
for sure. Yeah,
13:40
the entry barrier is lower, and we breathe 23,000 times a day. But the way we breathe is usually wrong. And I think there's this beautiful saying and this comes from pranayama from India, where they have breathing techniques that go ages and ages back. Where they say the first thing you do when you are born, is breathing. And the last thing you do when you die is also your last breath. So every everything in between is life. So breathing is actually an energy of life, life energy. And that's the word prana in pranayama it means literally life energy which you can also can maintain from an apple, right. And by breathing properly, you bring in more energy literally into the body. But no one ever taught us how to breathe properly. It's kind of crazy in elementary school, you you are being taught on how to exercise and eat properly, but we never get education about how to sleep and how to breathe whereas these are, in my opinion fundamental exercises to to have and cope with today. a crazy amount of stimuli. The our parasympathetic nervous system is totally messed up because as cavemen, right, we, when we saw a lion, it was very clear anxiety worked as a way of survival, which was the sympathetic nervous system, whichever drinks you if you see a lion, you need to fight or flight. And that was your only way to survive. But in this day and age, this lion isn't there anymore. The lion today is social media, work, elections, whatever, it's very abstract, and it's around us all the time. So our minds, which are still from the caveman time, right, a reptile brain is used to a certain degree of stimuli, which is down here. But today, it's 1000, plus bump, bump, um, notifications, emails, chatting, traffic lights, so our nervous system for most people is is messed up, it needs to be balanced. And the most effective way to do that is by breathing deeply, and very gently, and you can already start doing it without our product, don't get me wrong, I'm really one to sell breathing as it is free, it's free, everyone can do that at home. The thing is, however, that it is quite hard to make it a habit to make it a pattern and to be guided in the right way. Because breath work takes time it takes exercise, and that's what our product does, it guides you towards the right breathing patterns, but you can already start doing it yourself. at home. I'm happy to talk about those. So,
16:47
yes, please do. Um, you know, often some of the popular go twos at the moment for people, you know, being the obstinate advantage and breadth. There's two key books for this topic. But are there any other things that you suggest practices, you know, resources for people that are looking at? It's clear, all right, yes, I am in that sympathetic state throughout a big majority of my day, and certainly in my night, what steps would you suggest for people, you know, beyond that, or do you think those are sufficient?
17:22
Well, I think there are, first of all, there are as many breathing techniques as there are recipes, right? Yes,
17:28
exactly.
17:29
It's very hard to find the right wine. I don't think the books that you have just mentioned by a breath by James Nestor to oxygen advantage by Patrick McEwen. Those are great starting points. But I think most people do not have the time to read those books and understand that they just want the practical test. Yeah,
17:46
they're stressed. Just tell me how to do it. Exactly.
17:49
Yeah. But there's a couple of concepts that I would like to talk about that are also written in those books. Which I think the first one is the importance of Carbo carbon dioxide, right co2, because a lot of people think breathing is all about oxygen. But it is not actually, oxygen is just one part of the equation. co2 levels is what you breathe out. But it is needed to open up the blood vessels. That's what co2 does to make the release of oxygen to your brain into your muscle more efficient. And a lot of people are over breathing, so they lose a lot of this carbon dioxide. Therefore their oxygen levels as co2 levels will go down, which will result in more anxiety, they will have less energy, etc, etc. So co2 is not poison in terms of breathing, it's actually a vehicle to release oxygen to your tissue and to your to your body. So one of the breathing techniques to do that, first of all, is to start breathing through the nose and through the nose alone. Because your mouth is for eating and not for breathing. I think that's also one of the key messages in it. Especially now Your nose is a filter for viruses it gets moisture gives moisture to the air, which is better for the lungs. So always breathe through the nose. Some people even take their mouth and maybe it's done. So those are two key takeaway points and you can either breathe to relax, or you can breathe to shift to our sympathetic nervous system to wake up. A lot of people need like a wake up light in the morning or grumpy but you can actually energize the body through breathing and one breathing technique to relax because I won't do all of them get let's do to Sarah, my favorite is always with you and that is through your nose and the way to do that is you can place your middle finger and indexing on your forehead and close up your nostrils. So it will start off with breathing your left nostril very slowly goes 1234, then you close both nostrils for four seconds to one and breathe out through the right nostril. So it's alternating those little breathing 1234, left nostril 234, close both 234 open up the right nostril 234. And this is a very, this was a very short practice of usually, usually, we would do 30 repetitions of this one. But you will already feel that you shift towards relaxation, you might notice your heart rate dropping. And it's very powerful. Because you breathe through the nose, you lengthen your outbreath. And it's always with you, if you were in the plane in the car, you can just do this and it will give instant relaxation. And my last one too, for a breathing technique to actually wake you up, which is the other way around. So to actually make you alert, because stress is not a bad thing. It's actually a good thing, if it is balanced, is the bus that he got breathing, which is you've maybe also seen Tony Robbins doing it. Put your fist next to your shoulders only breathing through the nose. And don't breathe forcefully, but breathe very lightly. And the way to do is is you breathe in through the nose and put your hands up in the air as if you say Hooray. And then you breathe in through the nose and back down with your fist. So you also spread your fingers like that. And you pull them down, and then you should breathe out through the nose by doing that movement, you put the pressure on your lungs to breathe out. So you get this.
22:06
You do that a 30 times. And it might be quite crazy. But you will feel the tingling feeling and your fingers maybe in your forehead. And that is actually the result of being more oxygen being released in your muscles and in your brain. And I think that is that is amazing that you can do that. Because usually you can't tell your heart to your heart rate to go down. You can't do that consciously. But through breathing, you can just influence a crazy amount of Phyto parameters in the body to become a super human in a way.
22:41
I love that oh my goodness, very cool. taking us through that is very, very helpful. And particularly build the why I think for a lot of my clients, they tend to be you know, very similar to myself and more obsessive or type A and after wanting to know the reasoning behind it, it can occur, it's just almost so simple that we overlook the breath element of things. And I really appreciate that you spoke to the tangible benefit. So often when I try to get my you know, very, you know, more obsessive types to get on board with this, I'll have them also just look at their heart rate during the practice. And when you get to see how really tangible This is how you can lower your heart rate during this practice in real time, somehow that does seem to for some of those people that need that extra to, to know the why that we're doing this, it can be really, really helpful for the one type when we're looking to calm ourselves versus Of course, the other direction, the power to shift and really bring focus and energy to the body. It's so it can really work as their own type of drug. And a lot of ways it's become much more of a lower side effect drug of choice for many of us nowadays, because it's such a beneficial practice to that we can compound on they can get much better at it going into the practice more regularly. So thank you for sharing that. And then for so say again, people are habit, it's clear that they need to start doing this. How long do you think it makes sense to do a practice like this? How much time do they need to set aside? Are there particular times of the day? Do you recommend this morning, afternoon night? Is there a way of kind of structuring like that how do you really do
24:37
well I hope you breathe 24 seven let me
24:42
practice breathing we should cap the asterik aspect. Yes.
24:46
Yeah. No, I think that is that is that that is highly personal Personally, I like to include it in my sleep ritual. So the the the 30 minutes prior to going to bed. I like to end this Day with breath work. And I just gave you some examples on a brief on our website, we have an overview with free tutorials on all sorts of breathing techniques, we can put those in the show notes, so you can actually try out breathing for yourself and see if it fits you. But I think that's the most powerful moment ending today with like, 10 minutes or 30 minutes, if you will, of breath. So not meditation necessarily, but just consciously breathing, which is a form of meditation. That it's also during work. I mean, personally, especially now being an inventor entrepreneur in Corona times, I can be very stressed and have near panic attacks.
25:45
Yeah, which chair
25:46
because a terrible experience. But once I noticed my breath changing, it's really my, my indicator, like my confess of how I'm doing. So I'm checking in with my breath, even when I'm, well now or when I'm working on myself later. And I found out Wait a second, I'm not breathing for 10 seconds. That's not good. Yeah, check in with your breathe, and then. And boom, it gives instant relief of the stress that you were in, because you're in that phone call for two hours typing and typing. So it's highly personal. But the most powerful moment, I would say 30 minutes before going to bed and right after you wake up. And once you are experiencing a stressful situation, just get back in with how are you breathing? Because that will make you more present. And I think that most people think Yeah, I the breathing, I think it's a spiritual Yogi kind of practice. It isn't it is this is science based all of this this is this is proven to work. But I think there is a more spiritual side to it, I already told you about it. But if you did the book, The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle a magnificent book. And that concept is that there's only this present moment. And I think anxiety or pain is actually the definition of being afraid of the future, because there's uncertainty financially job security, or because of something that has happened in the past. And a lot of people that do not sleep well are in one of these two situations in their heads, they're experiencing pain from the past, or they are so scared about to lose their job or who the next President will be. And the breath is the only thing that is always in this moment. So it's you can get into the present moments by simply breathing. And that is, yeah, I think that that is super cool. It can be to say it a shortcut to Mental Hygiene that way?
28:00
Yes. So I really liked that he phrased it in that way. Because really, what I and I say this to clients a lot, and is this practice of getting aware of our sleep in general, if it could be one of the most powerful, you know, Mental Hygiene approaches that we can possibly take on for foundationally. Once we really get this dialed in, the experience of way less of the instability of moods, really does seem to come and settle and I think, do having awareness. And as much as you know, we might talk about harkening back to the hunter gatherer days and, you know, strong circadian rhythms of the past. At the same time, I do think there's a lot of benefits to since technologies clearly, as of right now, certainly here to stay. So how we can marry the two. And actually, while that might have been part of the problem, originally how we can use that now to our advantage to really help support our sleep. And so in that vein, I will get a lot of people that are okay, no, I'm doing kind of this back to basics, ancestral paleo approach. I don't want any tech to do it, I want to have bring anything in the bedroom with me. So I wonder if you could help share just any other quality concerns around bringing in a piece of tech into the bed, electromagnetic frequencies, all of those kinds of questions that certainly come up nowadays around the bedroom?
29:33
Yeah, I think it's very good that people are more aware of the impact of technology. I think nowadays, humanity is not controlling technology, but technology is controlling humanity. And I think that it's good that people are more conscious about their behavior on their smartphone and the fact that once they are having dinner with their loved one, they're checking their email. I mean, for sure. Technology. Has harmful effects? Definitely. But I think that's within this discussion. It's it's either all technology goes out and going back to the caveman times, or all in. And I think there should be a distinction that not all technology is harmful. I think the answer to sleep deprivation I mean, we live in a world with artificial lighting with a nine to five clock. So it's impossible to get rid of all technology. That's it's simply impossible. It is making our life as comfortable ever in the history of humankind. So we should also embrace technology as a way that it could be an opportunity to help you sleep and I think saying that all electromagnetic fields are bad for you. I haven't seen any scientific paper as of yet that that has an impact on your sleep. Really? Yeah. However, the blue light if your phone it's also debatable whether that actually impacts it. There have been studies proving it and not proving it. Right. that mimics the brain that it is today distressful notifications in your phone. Most people end their day scrolling on Facebook, checking stressful notifications. Yeah, that is harming your sleep. But believe me that people like, like me, engineers, scientists will have to use technology, and look into what is harming us and what can potentially help us. And I think there are brilliant solutions out there that can be of help, that are technology based that do have a battery. And that can be of tremendous help to people that have been suffering for years without finding an effect. But yeah, it is important to be mindful, but let's be sure to not say that all technology is wrong, something is wrong. And it's good to be more conscious about that. Because you need to be in control, not the other way around.
32:01
Hmm. Yeah, well said, certainly, one of the first things that I have most people start with is bringing in some element of tech, whether it's tracking their sleep, you know, temperature controlling their environment, certain things that we do have the luxury now of bringing in that, you know, we didn't really have just not that many years ago. So that's a very, very good point and understanding. So okay, say we're, we're okay with bringing in this piece of technology. And certainly, if we look at the negative side effects around, if we're at the point where we're taking sleeping pills, and thanks for sharing and being open about what your mom said, many of us can relate to that that was part of my story was at my worst, I was taking sleeping pills, and it was a very confronting thing of what is the plan here? How long? Or how can we get off of this, and knowing so many of the detrimental effects? of taking these things over time. I mean, the health risks or costs around that are safe nificant. When we're talking about hypnotics, or benzodiazepines for sleep, it's Yeah, so So when we talk about that, versus certain pieces of tech, which really can be can become very clear the apples to oranges. So now we're okay with bringing if we're okay with bringing a piece of tech into the bedroom. I wonder if you could explain a little bit more because so it's not just like, Okay, this thing breathes. And then that's it. It's, it's to your point, it's kind of smart tech is robotic, and it's able to sync up with your own breathing, there's a little light that happens, there's movement that's happening, sooner if we could just walk people through so that they have more of an idea that can visualize what this looks like.
33:56
Yeah, so I'll just give an example of what it is like? Yes, that I guess. So the way it works is when you hold on to it. First of all, there is an onboarding within the mobile application, yes. Where we get to know you a bit better as a as an individual. As of now, we are also implementing parts of cbti, which I think a lot of companies are doing now, because it's a proven technique to establish the right habits to sleep. So basically, the mobile app serves as a remote to set the preferences for the breathing technique, which sounds you wants to hear and to become a coach or educator, so to say to make sure you are aware of the right sleep, hygiene and rituals, so that's further apart, but the product itself, when you hold on to it at night, you sort of hug it, you embrace it. You have the breathing part, which I just explained, but I think it's very important to stress that it is not the you You do not hear to breathing, it's really feeling the breathing. So there's the simulation of the falling and rising of the breath as if you are holding a living creature. And the sensors will be able to detect how you are breathing. So it will intelligently match up with your breathing pace, and then gently nudge you towards a deeper and slower breathing technique while listening to audio that you have uploaded through through your phone. So it's it's a really a way that if you have the hamster wheel of anxious thoughts going on to read to put your focus on the physical and hearing sensation that the sleep robot is offering. We are now also working on displaying the data in the app to see okay, is your breathing improving over time by using the sensor data. And we have also seen we are now doing preclinical studies with the university here and at awesome se which is asleep Hospital in the Netherlands. And we actually find that in regards everything of sleep every intervention takes time. So our product is not a magic bullet that if you use it for the first night, all your problems are gone. No, definitely not, we actually found it takes a minimum of three weeks of sequentially using it to see the results on reducing the sleep condition and indicator that we have used, which is an indicator of your insomnia levels. And we can now see that after three weeks of using that you're not only improving your breath, but you're improving the insomnia levels, they're decreasing actually, so where people who would have clinical insomnia before 71% of the users were actually above that threshold, which was which was, is really stunning, actually, since it is, in a way, a very simple way of approaching it 71%. I also mean that for 29%, it didn't have the desired effect. So I'm being very open about that
37:18
as well.
37:20
Because if a solution claims that it is a solution for everyone, you better be wary,
37:25
because it's very versatile.
37:30
And it won't work. If you have a snoring partner, it won't work if you have a restless leg syndrome. It's really for anxiety based sleep issues, which a lot of people experience. So yeah, just to manage expectations on what the product is like and how to use it. So yeah,
37:50
well, I really appreciate that. I think it's very integris. Because you certainly would sleep we do speak to it often like a gym, you know, some people are coming in and looking to improve their sleep, and they just couple things and they're off to the races. And it's incredible. And you know, the colors are brighter, and things are great. And then for other people, these are deep seated issues that really require a lot of peeling back of the layer, both physiologically psychologically all kinds of things going on. So to have any sort of blanket Oh, this is the thing. Very important to have that you know the steps behind it, and thanks for sharing those. But the expectation can be important. I do appreciate I really liked the onboarding experience and to setting the expectation because I think a lot of us that are having difficulty with sleeping, we so desperately want that fix and we want to quickly and we want it to be tonight. And then we do a lot of throwing out if things aren't working immediately. Day one, day two are done. So that's really important too for the stick to itiveness and the grit to make sure okay, we're putting this in and to have that framework is very very healthy can make a difference. I also like that the the weight of it was that intentional? Because it feel it's not like it's like a light stuff family throw around. Feels hefty.
39:18
Yeah, it is like let's say a heavy baby.
39:25
We did it on
39:26
purpose. Actually, there's actually some some useless weight in there. To like basically simulate the way to blanket kind of extreme because it's laying on top of you or laying against you. And if it's too light, you push it out of bed and if you lay on top of it, it breaks down. So that's why we made it a bit heavy. But just just to tap in on the point you mentioned. I think what whatever you're going to do to improve your sleep. Everyone wants that instant quick fix. And that's why sleeping pills are so popular and so dangerous. Also, for the breathing techniques that I just told you, they won't be immediately improving your sleep, everything you might try. There's tons of solutions out there audio CBD breathing cbti weighted blankets, give it time. And and and exactly the analogy with the gym is the best thing you can do. Even in regards of sleep trackers, right sleep trackers, they basically show you that you are overweight, but they don't tell you to get rid of the weights. You need to put in work you need to go to the gym, you need to make habits of exercising. And that exactly the same goes for sleeping trekkers are just a way to know where you are now. And nothing more. And then it's it's all about having the proper guidance of a real coach, as some people need a therapist, some people have clinical issues. Or it could be as easy as a product, which would be wonderful if that would do the trick. Because Yeah, good sleep is vital. But that's something we don't have to talk about.
41:15
Absolutely. preaching to the choir with that one. No. So I really, really appreciate you kind of breaking down this topic. And our intention is certainly to leave practical, you know, advice or takeaways for people and I think we've fulfilled on that. But if you get asleep robot, you don't get asleep robot. Either way, certainly begin with the thing that is free that you're doing automatically, which is breathing, and then just bringing a bit of awareness into that fact and bringing some reverence for how important it is, both for how you're living your days, and of course, your notes as well. So I'm sure out of this conversation, it's likely that at least we pique some interest to at least take a look at what does this thing look like, get a visual, and then some more information about all the quality info that you guys put out. So how can people learn more about you follow what you're up to? All the things?
42:16
Yes, so we you can go to some lox.com or type it in Google sleep rowboat some logs, you will you will find us. And on our website, you can find more about the product itself about the scientific studies that we have conducted, the reviews of other people that it has been working for. But also on our website, you can sign up for weekly a weekly webinar. So we will do a webinar. And I touched upon it. But we scratched the surface in the in the webinar that it's to an off hours of breathing techniques that you can use at home so you can sign up for those on our website as well. And we also have an E book if you're more of a reader, but there's tons of free content about breathing and sleep. And if you really want to take it up a notch, you can get the sleep over to trial, because we always offer a 30 night trials if it doesn't work for you that you can get a full refund. Because otherwise we didn't help. So we want to make sure that it does fit your anxiety based sleep issue. Yeah,
43:25
yes. Oh, yeah, I thought that was a good call to I mentioned that to different clients as well that there's the trials you can look at and test that out. Um, and I know we were speaking before we started recording about the Oculus, the the VR and sharing this person with your awareness around tech. As you were doing the breathing, oh my god, you've got to do the VR breathwork you could be sitting right in front of the person and guiding them with breathing. And it's I really feel like that could be the the next step for your tech innovation. So I'm putting a formal request to see that for you guys. It would be very cool. Well, so it's just a pleasure. And I really appreciate you taking the time synching up with the time zones again. So so thank you so much for both sharing your information and for what you're doing for this very important topic. And during really challenging time on the planet, you know, certainly 2020 and beyond. People are navigating things newly and sleep has been one of those things to be impacted. So anyone that clearly is coming from a place of passion and purpose around this topic. I think it's really important to spotlight so thank you for all the work that you are doing.
44:45
No thanks so great for having me. And I hope that with this podcast a lot of people learn about and to find their solution. So this one was about breathing. The previous one I think was about audio. Yes or no experiments and and and make sure sleep is a priority and Indian superpower.
45:08
So I completely agree with that one. Well thank you so much um, and definitely check out the website. All right.
45:16
Cheers. Bye bye sleep