*Note: This podcast contains explicit language not suitable for children. Nina Lorez Collins is a writer/entrepreneur and the founder of The Woolfer, a social platform, and website for like-minded women over forty. The community grew organically out of a closed Facebook group called "What Would Virginia Woolf Do?” She is the author of What Would Virginia Woolf Do? And Other Questions I Ask Myself As I Attempt to Age Without Apology, published in April 2018. With a Master’s degree from Columbia in the field of Narrative Medicine, she brings her knowledge and expertise to the conversation surrounding menopause, sleep, and building community. Nina shares vital information on sleep solutions for those who may be experiencing symptoms of menopause or even just struggling with sleep as you age in general.
BIO:
Nina Lorez Collins is a writer/entrepreneur and the founder of The Woolfer, a social platform and website for like-minded women over forty. The community grew organically out of a closed Facebook group she started in 2015 called "What Would Virginia Woolf Do?” Her book, What Would Virginia Woolf Do? And Other Questions I Ask Myself As I Attempt to Age Without Apology, was published in April 2018. She’s a graduate of Barnard College, has a Master’s degree from Columbia in the field of Narrative Medicine, and has a professional background in book publishing, both as a literary scout and then as an agent.
EPISODE LINKS:
Free three‑day trial: www.thewolfer.com
SHOW NOTES:
🔥 Why You Need to Find an OBGYN Who Specializes in Menopause
🔥 Hormonal Changes and How They Affect Your Sleep
🔥 Supplements Don’t Give Superpowers: Hear About Nina’s Supplement Mishap
🔥 To Take Hormones or Not Take Hormones: Making the Right Choice For You
🔥 What Works for One, May Not Work For Another, Where You Can Find Support
🔥 Exploring and Experimenting with Climax As A Sleep Solution
🔥 An App That Gives You A Girlfriend In Your Pocket -- Whenever You Need It
🔥 Peri-menopause, the Normal Ranges It Begins and How Your Sleep is Affected
🔥 Menopause and All the Symptoms that May Affect Your Sleep
🔥 The Woolfer Community As Your Tool to Solve Insomnia
🔥 Combatting Hot Flashes with This Game Changer
🔥 Sleep Issues May Not Disappear with Menopause -- Here’s Why
🔥 Middle Age, Menopause and Mental Health
🔥 Switching Up the Narrative: The Positive Side of Aging
🔥 Sex Tech and Addressing the Taboo Attached to Using Sex As a Tool for Sleep
🔥 Support, Community, and the Difference It Made
🔥 Anyone Up? Woolfers Support Group for the Insomnia Struggles of Menopause
QUOTES:
“There are a lot of good things that come with aging, but I basically wanted to create a space where women could be super honest about it and get advice from other women and get information.”
“Sleeplessness, while it's a symptom of menopause, it's also a symptom of age.”
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
women, sleep, menopause, community, called, people, symptoms, hormones, perimenopause, magnesium, feel, created, period, area, virginia woolf, life, point, waking, night, older
00:04
Welcome to the sleep as a skilled podcast. My name is Mollie McGlocklin. And I own a company that optimizes sleep through technology accountability and behavioral change. Each week, I'll be interviewing world class experts ranging from doctors, innovators and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Let's jump into your dose of practical sleep training.
00:34
Welcome to the sleep as a skill podcast. My guest today is Nina Collins, a writer and entrepreneur and founder of the wolf are a social platform and website for like minded women over 40. So a little background on this, the community grew organically out of a closed Facebook group that Nina had started back in 2015, called what would Virginia Woolf do? And her book, what were Virginia Woolf do, and other questions I asked myself as I attempt to age without apology is it's called, was published in April 2018. She's a graduate of Barnard College has a master's degree from Columbia, in the field of Narrative Medicine, and has a long professional background in book publishing, both as a literary scout and then as an agent, she has for nearly grown children and lives in Brooklyn. So a couple things one, we had actually recorded this last year, and so it has kind of been sitting in the vault. And I've been eagerly awaiting to bring this out. Because there's been so many clients that I have had that have been somewhere in the process of navigating menopause, whether I've been working with them either during that period, or post menopause. But either way, that kind of chapter in their life has been a big part of certainly the conversation around sleep, to say the least. And that Nina Collins had made such a profound impact on their experience, navigating that and providing kind of a platform and forum for women to you know, discuss and air out all of the things that they're going through, in kind of a safe and an often funny and witty and smart kind of group. So I've been very excited to share this conversation. And I hope you guys get a lot of benefit out of just hearing her, her authenticity, her vulnerability, and just really what she's created. It was it, you know, the Facebook group alone wound up in the New York Times, just for how noteworthy and how active and how much women were craving this sort of place to share, you know, really what they're going through whatever stage of the game that they're in, and again, for any woman over the age of 40. And as we know, going through this period of life can often bring about big changes in our sleep patterns. So one of the things naturally that we're going to focus in on this conversation is what to do about that? What are some of the options? What do people what does it look like? What do people go through? Is this what type of people are affected by this? Or, you know, what type of women are affected by this as they go through that? Is it all women? Is it? Have they been good sleepers before? Were they bad sleepers before were they you know, all those labels? How do we take things throughout that area of our life that's, you know, inevitable for, for most of us to then find kind of that light at the end of the tunnel when it's sometimes it can feel really challenging. So she's going to bring a lot of insight into this topic, and I think you will really enjoy this conversation.
03:44
Now before we get into the podcast, I do want to take a quick minute to give a shout out to our sponsor better help or as I like to call it a therapist in your pocket. It's the exact app that I use when I was going through my really challenging period of insomnia while traveling overseas. And the ability to maintain a consistent therapist in real life was just really not an option for me since we were jumping around from country to country. So the ability to with using my phone have video calls weekly with my therapist that was paired with a for me, actually, I connected with a great therapist right off the bat. But I do know other people who have been able to kind of shop around with some of the therapists on that app until they find a great fit for them. And in between those calls. One of the things that I found was really helpful is that you can also send voice notes, text messages, images in between that you no longer weekly video call so that you do have this really very real ongoing connection and support that I certainly at least in my experience hadn't felt with real life therapists that I've used in the past and also the pricing structure is much more competitive than a lot of the real life therapists that you can come into contact with. So I found it to be a lot better.
05:00
It's, I recommend it to a lot of people that are just kind of going through struggles in their life or just simply want to be able to uplevel. And get bringing that level of reflection and awareness into their life, about what's both working and not working. And you can certainly cancel at any time and for our sleepy community, the betterhelp company has hooked us up with 10% off if you go to better help.com forward slash sleep is a skill again, better help calm forward slash sleep is a skill.
05:29
Alright, and welcome to the sleepest skill podcast. My guest is Nina Collins today and I cannot be more excited to dive in to all that this amazing woman has created a
05:46
podcast episode towards his two women, specifically that are navigating all the multiple and often confusing stages of menopause. So whenever one just thank you so much for being here, Nina. Hi, thanks. I'm glad to be here. So great. This is you know, we were connected a while back through a mutual friend. And you know, I've had some different conversations. And so I'm so grateful now that we're able to put it into this platform and to share all your awesome knowledge and all that you're doing in the world, to our listeners, and to be able to gear this get out of you all that amazing information that you've been able to gather in sleep and how it gets impacted in this stage of life for women. So to begin, yeah. Which is remind me how old are you? I can't remember. I am about to be 35. My birthday is March 17. St. Patrick's Day a couple days away. All right. Yes. Ah, okay. Good. Just
06:42
context. Yes, absolutely. No, that's that's a really great question. I think that could lead us in to even just creating the context for us. So you know, this, this episode is specifically geared to women, of course, we're open to any men that want to participate and listen in. And, you know, we are committed that we really help further educate how the breadth of this area because I know when I read your book, I was even surprised to hear of all the multiple stages. I wasn't queued into that when this begins, I think even can be earlier than people realize. So if you could just begin to start, start at the beginning on what this looks like. Yes. So when I was like about a month or so after I turned 46, I, I had always been a really lifelong, terrific sleeper through four kids through all sorts of work ups and downs I had my sleep was never an issue. And suddenly around a month after I turned 46, I started having this thing where I would wake up at like four in the morning. Ultra awake, not anxious, just wide awake. And I would be awake, kind of looking at the ceiling and wondering why the fuck it was awake.
07:55
You're totally right, yes. And I would be able to go back to sleep till around six. And then I would drift off and then of course have to wake up for my day. And it was really, really unsettling. And I started Googling it. And I went to visit my doctor and I realized that I was having a bunch of other symptoms. My periods were had become irregular, I was getting a little bit depressed. I was having various symptoms that are realized, ultimately, we're perimenopause, which is the period in a woman's life leading into menopause and it can be anywhere really from like two to 11 years. It's a long period. And for most women, average age of menopause is around somewhere between 50 and 52. So for most women in their 40s, they'll be in perimenopause at some point, it can start earlier, it can start in your late 30s or your early 40s. But it's typical to start in kind of your mid 40s. And there are a lot of symptoms that come with perimenopause, you know you're fat you start gaining weight, you start sleeping less well is really the probably the number one thing Sorry, I'm pausing for a second blinking on all the myriad symptoms. There's so many. There's so many reasons I started this community, the wolfer is that there are three documented symptoms. One of them is impending sense of doom, which I thought was really very funny. As your breath can change, your teeth can start to shift. I mean, there are a lot of things that happen you start to develop back that you start to have more hair growth on your face, and there are all sorts of things that happen you have vaginal dryness, but probably the one of the most common symptoms is insomnia. And it can come later in my menopausal journey. I was only in perimenopause in the end for about two three years. I got my last period when I was 48. And once you haven't had a period for a year you're considered fully in menopause. I'm now 50 so I'm a year into menopause. But your sleep issues Don't go away with perimenopause or menopause they just seem to change although I suppose for some people, they may go away
10:00
In my case, they came and went, and then I ended up having really terrible hot flashes in the last six months, which again, for some women can happen during perimenopause. For a lot of women, it happens after your period stops like for me, and the hot flashes were so debilitating that I ended up going on hormones. So essentially, I was suffering from lack of sleep, realized I was in perimenopause decided that I wanted to create a community of women to talk about it to kind of talk about aging, and all that kind of good, bad and in between, you know, the ways we start to feel nostalgic, and we worry that we're irrelevant, and, you know, our kids are growing up, and maybe our careers are stalled. And there are all sorts of things that come with middle aged, middle age that are challenging, and then there are all these great things that come with it kind of our increased, you know, wisdom and knowing our bodies and knowing more what we need and want physically. And you know, there are a lot of good things that come with aging, but I basically wanted to create a space where women can be super honest about it and get advice from other women and get information. So we have a lot of conversation in our community about sleep, yeah, at least once a month, we'll get a woman who posts at 4am and says I'm awake at 4am. And I can't sleep and I'm just reading posts, is anyone else awake? If I'm lucky enough to sleep at night, I'll wake up the next morning, you know, whatever, nine, and I'll see a very active thread that went on at 4am of women talking about all the things they do when they can't sleep. So that's so important. Because you know, number one, the difference that you've made in this area is vast, not only did you you know, write this really acclaimed book, what would Virginia Woolf do, but you also created this group that it's so tight knit, it's, you know, gotten tons of press about the interactions there and the difference that it's made. So, share a little bit about how this, you know, as you said, you you found that you needed to create this community and, and through this, this topic of sleep, this has been something that started from the beginning. And this was part of your thought process around it. Were there certain things that you were able to learn through your kind of open documentation of what your trials and tribulations around sleep like. So what are some of the things that you found, you know, through having this community that have made a difference in your own sleep habits? Sure. And I should say, just to explain to our audience, we initially started the community on Facebook, we will call something we were called what would Virginia Woolf do, which is a little bit of a dark joke. Yes, my girlfriends are a lot of smart feminists and big readers. And the original title of the group was kind of like a, you know, should we throw in the towel kind of nod to Virginia Woolf, who sadly killed herself in her 50s. It was not meant to mock suicide, it was a name for something that I had no idea would become as big as it has. Yeah. So through on Facebook to like 32,000 women. And then last fall in the fall of 2019. We left Facebook, we built our own app, new social platform, and we've gone to a subscription model. So we have this, and we're now called the wolfer, which is what the women in the community started calling themselves organically. So wolfer for Virginia Woolf. So now we're in a subscription platform where we're a website and a newsletter, and women go on and pay $35 a year to be part of the community and get advice. So I'd say, um, I mean, a lot of the things I'm sure your listeners know we've done now, we'll send our newsletter about what you know, best ways to learn Omnia, so there are all sorts of natural teas, right, like valaria and melatonin, and magnesium were the two things I did in the beginning that really made a big difference. We're pretty big fans, I'd say of magnesium in our community. Yeah. Although there are a lot of different kinds of magnesium and you do need to make sure you're taking the right one and you should consult with your doctor about it. I actually had like a magnesium mishap at one point where I started taking a lot of it. It also helps you be regular, it helps you out regularly and it helps you sleep well. And I kind of I don't know was it was a little stupid of me. I kind of thought it was a wonder drug and I guess three or four pills a day. And I have to say one of my doctors mistakenly said to me Oh, it can't hurt you. You'll just poop it out if you take too much. It's not true. I ended up slowing down my heart I started having weird cardiac symptoms and they thought I had a heart issue and I had to go to all these specialists and have all these tests and then it became clear that I was actually od on magnesium so great call out by the way thank you for saying that because it can occur as this wonder drug and oh my god this is Game Changer and what is good in one dose might be even better in a bigger at a larger dose so thank you for kind of calling out the importance of monitoring that yeah that's really what I thought and I do still take magnesium and I
14:42
think it is has been kind of a wonder drug for me but you sure right amount and the right kind. So some people also take melatonin which I found in the beginning of my sleep crisis may be helped but it didn't seem to do all that much. You know, doing the whole usual no screens in bed and darkening through
15:00
My room is pitch black all the time, sex in the middle of the night often helps masterbatches if you can't fit asleep, that's kind of Don't drink too much water before bed, because when a big thing that happens as you get older is you have to get up to pee in the middle of the night. And so that wakes you up. And that's something that I never used to have. And now I do I probably get up at least twice a night, which isn't much my um, you know, people who are older complaining about this a lot need to pee in the night, what I ended up doing was going on hormone replacement therapy, which is, as I'm sure you probably know that you're only 35 maybe not, it's very controversial, you know, you kind of the standard, and then it became kind of demonized as something that was going to give us all cancer and heart failure. And now it's become a little bit more in vogue again, under a doctor's care for a certain number of years at a certain time along the way, people are thinking that HRT might be protected for a lot of things, including Alzheimer's. And I mean, basically my feeling about it was I didn't want to go My mother died of breast cancer young and when she was 46. So I did not want to go on hormones. But I reached a point last winter when I was 49. So kind of a year into menopause, where I was having up to 30 hot flashes a day and most of them at night. So I was waking up all night long and really waking up just drenched waking up, I would go and take a shower at three in the morning and then at five in the morning. And it was really brutal. And I finally reached a point where I thought lack of sleep and interrupted sleep is as unhealthy for me as any number of things I need to get a good night's sleep. Yeah. And so I take I'm on point 025 Astra dial patch and I take 100 milligrams a night of progesterone. And I sleep like an absolute baby now and it's been such a gift after I kind of went through like, you know, in the beginning at 46, I had some sleepless I have that waking up thing. But that wasn't nearly as bad as at 49. When I was having these hot flashes all night long, like, I would push my partner away for me. I mean, it was just really disruptive. So now I'd say it's been about five or six months, since I've been on hormones, and I just sleep so well. It's like heaven on earth. Wow. Well, thank you so much for sharing about that too. Because to your point there's people have different opinions about these things. And they as you call out to kind of indifferent, the popularity can go up and down and the demonization of certain approaches.
17:30
hormone thing is hard. I mean, you can feel you feel self conscious taking them a little you do feel like you have to kind of explain why you're doing it. And there are women who absolutely love them and women who won't take them at all. And as I said that the medical opinion about them is shifting, always shifting. So it's really, and also it's very confusing. If you start to scratch the surface, you'll meet women who rub gels on their arms and women who ingest pills and women who wear patches, there are a lot of different ways and a lot of different drugs. So it's very confusing and about the right thing to do. And what I would urge your menopausal listeners to do is really the best thing to do is find someone who specializes in menopause because most ob gyn and certainly primary care doctors really don't feel like offer to put you on birth control pills, or they'll give you sleeping pills. When I first went in with complaints of sleep, I was offered trazadone. And I'm in Yeah, and I didn't want to take sleeping pills, you know, I really wanted to get to the more systemic issues. So again, this is something if you go into our community at the wolffer.com and you Google you search for sleep, you'll get so many stories and information about the myriad things women do. But I think those are the main things I mean, you know, we get obviously I'm sure you have this to people debating, you know, is it better to just get up and or rights or albums, you know, read a book?
18:53
Or is it better to just lay there I think that's kind of personal preference, right? meditations or Linden meditating apps, apps, like calm can be very helpful as well. You know, I also love what you're this kind of experimentation approach, and but also community approach to navigating all of this because, as you kind of touched on, it can be so confusing. It can take trial and error, what can work for one woman might not work for another woman. And I certainly am from my own personal experiences, you know, for me, when I went through my period of insomnia, you know, for me, this built, this is where the whole company came from was just, you know, knowing how much of the impact that time of my life made on me and for me, it felt very lonely. I felt like I didn't have anywhere to go, the steps to take that would be from that systemic approach that you pointed to, I didn't know a resource or forum to be a part of and for you to have created exactly that specifically tailored to women, you know, really 40 and over that are dealing with these problems. It's so important because that
20:00
sense of partnership in all of this is invaluable? Yeah, no, it really is. The one thing women tell me all the time when I meet them in person is that the community makes them feel less alone, and it makes them feel normal. I think for women entering into it, it can be a little daunting. I do another podcast with someone the other day, who said she had just joined the wolfer community. And she said, I feel like I'm in a stadium, you know, with 1000s of I don't know. But once you start talking and sharing the women, we really have created a wonderful kind of tone. And there's a sense of inclusion and welcoming. It's also not sacrimoni. So you'll get honest answers. But there is a lot of support, and a lot of humor, and a lot of great resource. So it's a really good place. We're starting to think about it is like now that we've moved off Facebook, I find that I use the app and I'm much more intentional way It really feels like you have like a girlfriend in your pocket like you go there with you want advice when you have a question to ask when you're looking to see what everyone's reading and talking about when you sometimes we'll have a big thread for like the Oscars. It'll be kind of a funny thread. People are watching the Oscars and kind of live commenting. It really is. It's a very special place that I kind of unexpectedly created. fell in Yeah, yeah. So cool. And so for these women, just a couple of questions, if you could kind of underscore again, I know you, you touched on this when we first started, but what are the kind of the age brackets like what is the earliest that women might when they're if they're in this period of EMI, just stressed out and not sleeping? You know, what's the earliest time period they could start to ascertain? Am I going through this? And then what is, you know, for your group? Is there an aged out period where we're not dealing with some of these, you know, things like what do you almost hone in on? So I'd say I mean, there are there are medical exceptions, right? There are women who go through surgical menopause you have hysterectomy, or have their ovaries removed for medical reasons when they're in their 20s or 30s. And there are women who just go through unexplained early menopause, I have a friend who went through menopause in her mid 30s. But overwhelming her grades right before my birthday.
22:05
And that's not gonna happen to you overwhelmingly typical is that in your mid to late 40s, your period starts to not show up every month. I mean, it starts to stagger a little and you start to get a few other symptoms, you'll start to feel this impending sense of doom, you'll start to be ruthless, you'll start to notice your teeth are shifting like we're your subs notice weight gain that's kind of unexplained. And that is the beginning of perimenopause. And again, if you Google it, you'll see there are many, many symptoms, most of which I ended up having. There are the there's the rare woman who doesn't get any. And there are women who have like no symptoms, they have no hot flashes, they just one day stop getting their period, and they're done. But that's really rare. So kind of mid to late 40s is typically when it starts. And then you know, if you're lucky, you're done by your mid 50s. And then things calm down, although I'm not there yet, right. I'm only 50. And I hear from women in my community that a lot of symptoms continue unfortunately. sleeplessness, I think sleeplessness while it's a symptom of menopause. It's also a symptom of age. Yeah. And so men also suffer from sleep issues. I don't think anyone sleeps as well as they get older. I won't stay on these hormones forever. And I don't know what will happen to me, then these I am really sleeping well now.
23:23
Okay, so this is so great, though. Because what you're providing for people is one this experience that it's not just a one and done. You've been in this conversation now for years, how many years ago did you say you guys created this? It's been almost it'll be five years in October. And it is really interesting the way like my perspective on it changes right when I started it, I was 46. In a few months, I'll be 51. I'm sure in five more years, the issues I'll bring to it. And the issues I'll be interested in reading about will have shifted yet again, you know, my kids are getting older. But we really are spaced I'd say the average age in our community is 52 to 54. But we very much have women in their in their early 40s. You know, the rule is you have to be 40 to join the community. And we have a handful of women in their 80s definitely women in their 30s. But for the most part, the bulk is between 40 and 60. Now this is so great, because I mean many of my clients that I work with are often 60. And over because what they've found is that not only did they go through exactly all the things that you just spilled out of the difficulties around their sleep, but also it seemed to have created this vicious cycle of just a connection or maybe this connection to sleep working for them and then some maladaptive habits around that and how to cope. And then it's, you know, of course paired with aging and some of the things that we see with melatonin rates and some of the things that happen as we do get older. So all of these things both on a physiological and psychological perspective and then even some environmental issues will culminate right, and so
25:00
Then it's just many years and then he was getting resigned to Well, I don't really sleep anymore. You know, I barely, I barely squeezed it out. That's right. I mean bladder issues alone if you're
25:10
in the middle of the night and that's the thing that happens as we get older. So, yeah, there are a lot of obstacles for sure. But what I'm left with Sheila is like, I'm left with this experience of that you are actively, you know, modeling this testing mentality, this kind of quantified self of Okay, so I'm trying this and this worked. This didn't work. Let me share about it. Here's what I'm testing out right now. And I'm getting good results. And then also learning from the community. So it's a dynamic processes. Yes, I see. That reminds me of a really funny story a few months ago, before I went on the hormones I read about something called the bed jet. Have you heard about the bed guy used to have the bed jet actually, now I have the chilli pad. But yes, I used to have the bed jet. I actually loved the bed jet. So I called him up ask them if they would send me one they did so that I could review it. You know, it's like an air conditioner for your bed. And I set it up and I really loved it. And now I don't need it at the moment because I've gone on hormones. But I was a big fan. I think a few women in our community bought it. It's a very funny little gizmo. So yeah, yeah, it's not only do you have to try it, you know, is there a lot of trial and error for sleep issues? There's a lot of trial and error for menopausal issues in general. And when I first realized I was going through perimenopause, I went to the health food store and probably bought, you know, $500 worth of supplements, most of which except for magnesium. I don't take anymore. Yeah, but you know, you try various things work for different people and, you know, desperate times calls for different.
26:38
Yeah, and but also, you know, just this kind of brand value of laughing throughout all of it, because that is something that I often find is a missing when people are coming to me that don't have a community that fosters that. And instead, there's not a lot of play in this area or experimentation. And there's simply just like, either resignation or, you know, no, I think so. Right. I mean, a big part of our kind of philosophy is no shame, the idea that you do that we can celebrate that there, there are things that about getting older, that are really hard and sucky. And there are things that are great, and it is what it is. And we want to be able to talk about it honestly and laugh about it and come up with solutions and not feel kind of hidden away in a corner. Like we're supposed to be ashamed because we're women getting older in our society, which is absurd, of course. But there is a lot of shame. So we were definitely here to combat that. Well, you know, I'm so glad you said that word too, because I've had you know, so I have an interesting split of a clientele. So I both have a lot of menopausal and postmenopausal women that I work with, but then I also have a whole slew of poker players. So imagine that the disconnect between these two groups, but what I will talk to, you know, my poker players, and because you know, they're trying to optimize their sleep to make a difference at their results at the poker table at odd hours of the night. So when I'll talk to them about this concept of shame around sleep, it doesn't always land in the same way. Shame around, you know, and and no, of course, you're speaking to shame as well, as you know, as relates to all the changes that happen through this process. But, you know, this idea also just the shame with sleep specifically, it doesn't mean people that aren't in the midst of it are really struggling, they don't always get that word and how that can relate. And it really can be so shameful. And just, you know, oftentimes, people just stop sharing what's been going on, because and now they're, you know, they're trying things and they've maybe given up and so now that they're bringing their phone into bed, they're barely sleeping, you know, they're just surviving. Yeah, I mean, failure in whatever way we interpret it is, you know, can feel embarrassing. So if you're not sleeping, well, if you're not functioning well, if you don't feel like you're looking your best if you're depressed or anxious, and all these things can make us feel bad about ourselves. And, you know, our idea is, it's normal, it's natural, it's part of life, like how do we manage it better, and, you know, move on, not feel bad about ourselves. So it's so great that you are creating this kind of openness. So with that, I know, we're speaking, you know, briefly before we started recording, and I was, you know, was laughing, because I love your openness to around this idea. And I've been kind of writing about it more recently, this whole idea of adding a new step into our bedtime rituals and around sexual wellness. So as it relates, particularly for women that might be single, and how we can bring in all this new sex tech to calm ourselves in the evening when oftentimes if our hormones are out of whack, sometimes we're doing the exact opposite and are on a physiological state where our cortisol levels are rising in the evening and certainly not certainly not melatonin, you know, you know, our ability to produce our own natural state of surplus of melatonin is not always there in the same way and we're actually stressing before bed. So these other new ways of cutting
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regaining control in the area really interesting. And I love that it sounds like your platform is really open about the experimentation process of that. I was wondering if you could speak a little bit more about that? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we get a lot of women in our I mean, I think if our community has done two things particularly helpful for women, I think it's talking about vaginal atrophy, vaginal dryness, something that happens in menopause that a lot of people don't want to talk about with their doctors, or with anyone I didn't even know it existed until I learned about it in the group. Yeah, I was not suffering from it. And I had no idea even existed till I was 47. And it's a real thing. And also just sex women being able to talk about sex and their needs and their desires and their fantasies and their habits. We're very open about it in the community. And we're big proponents of masturbation, and vibrators and sex toys, and we write about them frequently. And we've done some pieces on sex tech, which is actually a term now, which is
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screaming great. Yeah, I mean, so a lot of women, I mean, I didn't even have a vibrator till I turned 40. So there are a lot of women who don't start thinking about these things until later in life. And I hope one of the things our community does is give them permission to explore. And it is certainly something that can help with sleeplessness, and you know, whether you have a partner or not, there's masturbation, there's waking up your partner in the middle of the night for play of all times, having an orgasm does relax you and helps you get back to sleep. Yeah, you know, when we were talking before sharing how I had the opportunity at CES, this, you know, large tech event of meeting with a lot of different mainly female founders of these sex tech companies and kind of rebranding this whole area and making it a really an opportunity for female empowerment to pick up some of these different items. And then I love the word that use of explore by, you know, bringing about this exploration into this area that many people, you know, depending on their relationship to this topic might have, you know, not really had that opportunity to do and then some of these tech companies have been doing some interesting research around the connection between the those levels of cortisol as it relates to the kind of release, feel good hormones that we get out of the process of climax and or an orgasm. So the fact that you are bringing in this platform is exciting, to you know, test and find out what works, what doesn't work and how to bring this in. Is this something to that you find that many people throw in particular, you know, dealing with hot flashes? And what have you can use as yet another thing to kind of calm themselves and, and bring back sleep? Oh, absolutely. I mean, women, we talk about it all the time in our community, definitely, I think the only thing that holds people back is kind of, again, kind of shame or embarrassment, or lack of knowledge. And so we try and normalize it and and help women feel more comfortable with exploring these things. Yeah, so great. And you know, also, as it relates to, you know, the hot flashes, and you know, what women are navigating, they're in that area, it's so crazy from the exploration, there's so many elements are so many sleep tech items that you can bring in to make a difference around even just that physiological response. And the fact that, you know, testing out things like that with the sex tech or the cooling, you know, trailers, whether it's bedjet, chilipad, any of these things, it does take some kind of trusted sources, because, you know, you can also spend a pretty penny going down all these different avenues if you don't have the, you definitely can, and it is hard. I mean, I in the beginning of the community, I used to always kind of say, like, I just want an answer. I don't want to keep trying all this, because you do spend a lot of money on supplements and gadgets. And I mean, that bedjet you know, I got for free to write about for my website. I mean, that thing is like $450 I think it's a huge expense. So it is a problem and and I'm sad to say there is not really an answer, you know, you find with menopause, you hopefully find a menopause expert, and they really listened to your symptoms and to your concerns, and, but you're still gonna end up there is some trial and error and not to mention with menopause, it's a constantly shifting landscape. So my symptoms are different at 50 than they weren't 49. And they were then they were at 48. And it keeps evolving. So yeah, it's hard and it's not great with our, you know, screwed up healthcare system. It's not good health care. There's now a movement of telemedicine for menopause. And there's actually there are three companies I know of, they're all kind of launching tellement products. One's called the cusp one is called Electra health, and one is called genetic love. And I think menopause is uniquely well suited to telemedicine actually, because what you really need is, you don't need to go see someone you really need to talk to someone about your symptoms, you can always get blood tests that are sent in, but it's not really so much that you need a physical exam. So I'm hoping that because we can
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Hear of a lot of women in our community who are live in remote places, if you live in North Dakota, there's not likely to be a menopause specialist anywhere near you. It's hard to find one in New York, huh? Yeah, that's so true. So the access element is really important. So kind of bridging that gap, I love the call out. Because, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of frustrating things about all the differences in our modern society as it relates to things that could negatively impact our sleep and our health. But then to your point, there's a lot of amazing things that are happening, that can make a difference that we can benefit from, Wow, well, thank you, you know, I just, I feel like we could talk so good, really go deep. And just, you know, the fact that you're have taken out the time from your busy schedule to help educate our audience and your audience to further underscore the difference that, you know, just creating an open dialogue and communication can make in this area, this is, you know, this is not a brief period of a woman's life, this is something that, you know, you want to settle in for and create, create some, you know, partnership and alliance with and you know, trusted groups. So, I wholeheartedly recommend your platform, I often refer different women to be able to have, you know, to join your community, because I think it is so important. And it's a big part of this, and how to feel empowered during this phase in our lives. So thank you. No, absolutely. And absolutely any woman out there over 40, please come join us and check us out. It's, there's a free three day trial. It's www the wolffer.com WOL, f e r. n, I'm very accessible, you can always just email me Nina at the wolfer. And the group of really kind of smart, interesting women, we'd love to have new voices. So great. And in addition, you certainly take her up on that offer. And you know, check that out and peruse that and get right into you know, if you do the three day trial, ask some questions, get on the court, see, you know, all the apps out of that. And then also you have in your tremendous writer, and you have your book, you know, you've held a collection of things that people can read and learn more about you as well. So great. Well, thank you again, and looking forward probably have to have a part two when things change within another couple years and you've learned a whole other series of things for us to share.
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It's really nice talking to you. You too. Thank you so much.
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You've been listening to the sleep as a skilled podcast, the number one podcast for people who want to take their sleep skills to the next level. Every Monday I send out something that I call Molly's Monday obsessions containing everything that I'm obsessing over in the world of sleep, head on over to sleep as a skill calm to sign up.