The Sleep Is A Skill Podcast

048: Dr. Joe DiDuro, Creator of ProNeurolight: Brain 🧠 Based Red Light For Deeper Sleep & Improved HRV

Episode Summary

Do you know anyone (maybe yourself!) who is healthy, routinely exercising, has healthy habits but has sleep problems? The problem might not be sleep, rather it may be a brain problem. For someone who suffers from head trauma early in life, no matter how mild the incident was, the brain might experienced disturbances that haven’t been resolved in a long time. Another example is caregivers, they often have enough sleep, but their performance is declining, the brainpower is declining. This podcast looks at the possibility of restoring our brainpower by improving oxygen flow using red light therapy. Red light therapy was known to improve oxygen uptake in the brain and helps with brain recovery, thus helping people to feel and perform better. A head-based specific device has been created by Dr. Joe, who has spent more than 20 years understanding sleep devices. Dr. Joe DiDuro DC MS DABCN is a Chiropractic Neurologist, Clinical Researcher, Cognitive Augmentation Neurotherapist and Brain Fitness Coach, and the founder and CEO of ProNeuroLIGHT LLC, a photobiomodulation device company for home neurorehabilitation. Listen in to Dr. Joe and Mollie’s podcast discussing red light therapy by photobiomodulation and how heart rate variability score is a very important indicator of your wellbeing!

Episode Notes

BIO:

Dr. Joe DiDuro is dedicated to helping people live a more fulfilling life. His passion is to help people by teaching them how they can create neuroregeneration and healing in their own lives. He is the founder and president of the nonprofit organization 
In his 32 years of clinical experience, Dr. DiDuro has come to understand the very low quality of life that people affected by neurodegenerative diseases experience and that their disability touches every aspect of their existence; personal, social, and family. Dr. DiDuro has made it his life’s work to help end this suffering, initiate their recovery, and restore their humanity. 
Dr. DiDuro earned his Bachelor of Arts degree from the State University of New York at Buffalo in 1983. He subsequently received his Doctor of Chiropractic Degree from Palmer College of Chiropractic in Davenport, Iowa, in 1986. 
Dr. DiDuro lived and practiced in Vicenza, Italy, for 10 years and completed further specialized training in Amsterdam, The Netherlands, for the American Chiropractic Association’s American Board of Chiropractic Neurology and has Diplomate Status in Chiropractic Neurology since 2000. 
Upon moving back to America, Dr. DiDuro was accepted to Palmer Center for Chiropractic Research. As a chiropractor, working in a field that some call pseudoscience, he worked his way into the world of peer-reviewed research by obtaining a Master’s Degree in Clinical Research in 2006. Since then he has focused on working with collaborators who are leaders in their fields and see the value in evidence-based, client-centered care. He has dedicated his life’s work to research and unlocking the keys for new technology to help create More Brain Power. 
Since 1995, Dr. DiDuro has published and presented over 32 scientific papers around the globe. He was lectured to medical groups across Europe and North and South America. He is a collaborator with scientific experts worldwide. 
His most recent scientific publications include "Rapid Reversal of Cognitive Decline, Olfactory Dysfunction, and Quality of Life Using Multi-Modality Photobiomodulation Therapy: Case Report,” published in Photobiomodulation, Photomedicine, and Laser Surgery Volume 37, Number 3, 2019. Another is the highly referenced "Therapeutic potential of intranasal photobiomodulation therapy for neurological and neuropsychiatric disorders: a narrative review" in the prestigious scientific journal Reviews in the Neurosciences 2020 Apr 28;31(3):269-286. 
He is currently Moderator of the tPBMT - Brain Research Consortium (transcranial Photobiomodulation Therapy) and a highly sought-after Cognitive Neurotherapist and Brain Fitness Coach. He is the Host and Moderator of the BRAIN + tPBMT VIRTUAL SUMMIT where 40 of the world's leading scientific research experts in transcranial photobiomodulation present their research to the world. He has been featured on FOX, NBC, and CBS. 
He is sought after reviewer for scientific journals including the Journal of Alzheimer's Disease
He is the Developer of a suite of transcranial photobiomodulation devices and the Author of “My Brain Matters - the NeuroMetabolic Solution: A Handbook on How to Increase Brain Power for Your Loved Ones and Yourself” which is due for release this year.

EPISODE LINKS:

drjoe@proneurolight.com

IG: my_brain_matters

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joe.diduro.547

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-diduro-61747824/

https://www.my-brain-matters.com/summit-registration

SHOW NOTES:

🧠Self-care and Sovereignty

🧠Cognitive Impairment, Neurodegenerative Diseases, and Head Trauma

🧠If You Don’t Have Sleep Problem, You May Have Brain Problem

🧠Transcranial Photobiomodulation: Device to Create More Brain Power

🧠Infrared Light: Increasing Your Blood Flow by Increasing Oxygen Uptake

🧠How to Reverse Dementia

🧠How Does Photobiomodulation Help With COVID-19

🧠Your Heart Rate Variability (HRV) is Your Happiness Score

🧠Tip: Smile as Much as You Can Before Going to Bed

🧠Mouth Guard to Improve Your Mouth Position and Sleep Apnea Prevention

🧠Dr. Joe’s Nightly Routine and ‘Aha’ Moment

🧠How to Connect With Dr. Joe

🧠Book Coming Out Soon: My Brain Matters

QUOTES:

“If they don't sleep and they have to take responsibility for their own health. You know, we talk about self-care and sovereignty. self-care and sovereignty, but you need it to have a good, do you have a good brain? You need good sleep.”

Episode Transcription

Welcome to the sleep as a skill podcast. My guest today is known affectionately as Dr. Joe and Dr. Joe. I am so grateful that you took the time to be here today from beautiful Costa Rica. Thank you, Molly. It's pleasure to be here. Awesome. I know we had, uh, we put this in our calendar a while back, so I'm excited that the day is finally here. We've had lots of back and forth. Um, you know, you've I felt that you've been quiet. The pioneer on a number of topic, topics that are near and dear to me, certainly sleep, uh, red light therapy, photobiomodulation kind of transcranial work. And so you're going to get into helping us all understand, deeper sense what all of these things are about.  I know we got more to discuss too, so I'm going to jump right in and I would love to turn the table to you. And have you share a bit of, how did you get into this line of work? How, Well, are you still mission driven and, passionate about this topic of sleep and,  health in general? Well, I mean, what I found when I was coaching people is they would come in and, you know, my, my practice is a client based taking care of people with mild cognitive impairment or dementia. And Alzheimer's, and what I realized was that taking care of Alzheimer's people is that the caregiver needs as much care as the patient, you know, Yeah. you know, the Alzheimer's is a terminal disease and sometimes the patient dies, but a lot of times the caregiver is suffering. So I realized that they needed sleep. And then when you would ask the, the patient with mild cognitive impairment, like, well, how did you sleep? I sleep great. And I was like, ah, we need really, I can't go by that. So we needed the bio data. We needed sleeps, you know, information from these people. And then we'd have to figure out a way to get them better, you know, to help these suites. Problems get better. That was one of the main things that we knew we had to implement, you know, sleep data and let people really in general know that their quality of life is going down. If they don't sleep and they have to take responsibility for their own health. You know, we talk about self care and sovereignty and I just kind of my personal thing, you know, self care and sovereignty, but you need it to have a good, do you have good brain? You need good sleep. Absolutely. Yes. So, uh, you've had a real focus. On the brain in particular for as, um, kind of a Genesis for great health. so I'm excited for you to kind of walk us through some of those ways that,  so say if we know that, um, we have either concerns from a maybe genetics perspective of,  neurodegenerative disorders or we've a history of some traumatic brain injury. I know we were chatting beforehand that, for myself, I was in a really bad car accident when I was 17. I went through the sunroof car fell on top of me airlifted. I have metal in me from it, you know and, and so from that place that we were discussing, um, you know, that there can be real, actual, measurable fallout of things like that, and then can lead into some of those difficulties with sleep. So, uh, from that place, if you can help us understand, uh, how do we begin to make a difference with this area? I know it's a big thing. Well, that's a G that's a big, that's a big. That's a big chunk right there. So let's just say when I got my BioTracker, when I got my BioTracker that I use, so now use several of them now, but I realized one, my numbers weren't looking too good. And I said, well, you know, you're a scientist. You should be able to figure this out. How come my numbers? Aren't looking too good. Meaning my HRV was low and my sleep was all messed up. And I, you know, sounds like it's an eye opener, so you can easily shake the thing and say, this device doesn't work. Or you can say this device doesn't work. Um, you know, I got my master's degree in clinical research doing test‑retest reliability of different instruments. So I could say, even if there's a lot of variable in the machine, that's measuring it, it's giving us some signal. So that was one thing. And what I tended to realize is that, you know, the people who have a sleep problem, they have, they don't really have a sleep problem. They've got a brain problem in one sense. And, you talked about it though, you know, a lot, and I. Geez. We have a young girl she's bright, she's intelligent, she's active she's exercises, but she had insomnia. I said so many of these people don't have a clue that a traumatic brain injury, it is the basis for many of the low HRVs that won't recover and the sleep problems that won't recover. You know, we did. It's uh, when you think about, uh, at 50% to 70% of people with TBI in 21, studies have insomnia. Present have difficulty maintaining sleep. 49% had poor sleep efficiency, early morning, awakening and nightmares just as, as a little little thing. So they're missing out on this because you, you can't actually, you know, like we said, you can't make yourself go to sleep, right. And, and you can't make your brain better just by what drinking green juice you need. It's a skill you need to be able to do this. And, and what. What we found was that using these new devices, which not too many people even have them, not too many people utilize them. So I'm using them on me and I'm like, Hey, look at this, you got a 60 year old scientist, right. That's not putting in, you know, huge amounts of strain. And my HRV is like one 66, you know, 250 percentile of everybody that's using this device. I was like, Hey, I think I figured this out. And they're like, no, you didn't, you didn't know, you don't know what you're talking about this as possible. I was like, well, Okay. All right. So I had, you know, the science is behind me that when you have a traumatic brain injury and you know, not 80 to 90% of them will get better, but the 10% that don't get better, that's 10% every year that are just hanging around. And, you know, if you see people it's real simple, but it's hard for people to get it through their, your memory that they had. They had a traumatic brain injury. And I said, well,  Did you ever get the wind knocked out of you? Yeah. Oh. Did you ever get a headache after years? Yeah. Did you ever have light sensitivity yet? So remember it doesn't have to be loss of consciousness and that's why it's it's you, you're going to have think of it this way. When you're sleeping, you're kind of, nobody really knows what's happening, you know, you're asleep or unconscious. So all that thing is the same thing. With a traumatic brain injury, you go from a little bit of booboo to a big booboo to. Being unconscious or in a coma. But if you have a scar on the outside, you have a scar on the inside. And that sometimes helps people. I look at them and they said, do you ever have a traumatic brain injury? No. And I'm looking at this scar on their head and I'm like, Hmm, how about this? And then they will recall it. So this inflammation in this brain damage, it starts in that part. If you're not resuscitating this brain, you got a very, very difficult time in accomplishing your stuff. Goals or HRV goals and everything like that. Right? Absolutely. I just would, listen, I take care of like extreme ultra endurance athletes and, you know, they, they should them low. Everything's good about them, but their heart rate variability is in the toilet and their sleeps scales are all messed up and you're like, okay, extreme athlete. How about this? How about this? Did you ever have a concussion? Oh yeah. Okay. Well, let's start treating the brain and everything goes up. Okay. So this is exciting because, um, so many people that will reach out to sleep as a skill one it's it's sleep and HRV will often come into the conversation very, very quickly and frustration about how to raise that HRV. We often hear, you know, the same old things that will come  running lower, your stress, all those sort of things. And yet your, um, what I would love to go deeper on, uh, cause it sounded like when you first began and you were looking at those measurements, your HIV wasn't yeah. As stellar. And then you've gotten into this great level. So fill us in on, um, in between there, what did that look like? What did you do? Well, you know, the, we haven't designed and brought together a suite of devices for transcranial photobiomodulation. So people don't know what that is. It's sort of like, Oh, I can show you that it's putting light on the head and through the brain, through the skull. So this is like, What kind of looks like if that works, I'm coming out. Very good. Okay. I'm going to helmet my famous helmet, right? Yes. Well, this is a lot of power. This is a really increase your brain car, that little thing over there, but it helps with turning on the brain for the mild cognitive impairments people. He was a real rallied of it is if you had a traumatic brain injury, you have like a 10 times more likelihood to get cognitive decline later in life because. It actually never got better. Your brain never got better. So you're trying to drive the car with the, you know, the tires are flat, the engines ComEd up, you're trying to create more brainpower and more cognition and you just get more and more clogged up. So they don't really get there. So that's sort of the, the scenario. And so the reality of it is I am a DBI survivor, just like, just about everybody else. And remember when I said, you know, you get the wind knocked out. It, think about. So when you're in a, you're a SWAT team or you're in the army and there's a blast, right? And the blast concussion hits you. There's not shrapnel that breaks through your head. You know, you don't bang your head, but the force is transmitted through the food of your body and creates this damaging even a simple car accident. Even when you don't hit anything, the acceleration of your brain, you know, the jello as you accelerate and do. Carers and destroys neurons that deepen inside your brain. So, I mean 60 years old, I think 12 years of context sport, you know what I mean? Two brothers. Yeah. Oh, the blanks. Yep. It's better, et cetera, et cetera. So, you know, I realized that, you know, my sleep disorders, which had really didn't even realize that back in the day loud, snoring, you know, Waking up early and thinking it up, I'm full of power, but you know, I started with the Zio tracker back in the thousands. I love that thing. The thing is that the thing about all these trackers is, you know, if you're, if you're curious and you want to, in your competitive, you want to beat the score. Right. That's what you're trying to commute to try to do is increase that thing. And that was a great company because it gave you a real EEG on your brain. Yeah. It's time. Right, but I never got the, you know, the results that I wanted. So if you think about it, you have traumatic brain injury, sleep apnea goes up even in youth, even in young kids. Yeah. And, and that's going to reduce the oxygenation to your brain, your brain, power's going to go down. So you're in a downward cycle. And I know that when we talked before, you have a lot of, you know, menopausal women and everything like that. And you know, as soon as there's a hormone change, your brain functioning starts to dive and it really. Easy scenario is let's increase the circulation to the brain. Let's increase the mitochondrial activity of that brain. Let's get this stuff going and turn the lights back on. Basically. I mean, I don't mean to be a pun, but yeah, no, literally that is exactly right. So then, so for you, what did, um, so you, you start seeing this in your, this you're inspired to start taking new action because all right, your numbers, aren't where you want them to be. And then, uh, did it become like a high. Dosing was this a daily practice? Um, what does this look like for us? Well, yeah, you're so intelligent. You pick up, you pick out the tough questions immediately. And when we talked about dose, you know, okay. So there's light in general for circadian rhythms that we need to have. That's a dose and people aren't getting that. And then people are getting, say like the light panels, you know, that like put red light and. Is that a dose? You know, I think that really what happens when you have red light, you're reducing the garbage light, but you're not really increasing the light absorption of your tissues because really in order to have the red and infrared light, okay. Infrared light penetrates more. You've got to have it right against you because that here you don't have for an led, you don't have much penetration into the tissue here. You have more when it presses against there. It goes in more so that's really what we're talking about is penetration is the first thing that entrance dose, the type of wavelength that you use. Okay. The power of the, of the led or the laser that you're using, right. How much power that thing's putting out. And then actually, uh, you know, how close it is to the tissues. I, one of the things that we do is, uh, actually on another group, we're actually. That's really how you get dos. We're actually modeled modeling how different light gets into the brain and how much gets in there because every different device is going to have a different thing. So this is Oh, through the nose intranasal. So the thing is that this is, uh, does two things. The red light is going to oxygenate the blood, which is going to clean the blood, make it flow better, which is important for our circulation for getting. The blood where it needs to go easily. Cause the blood tends to getting sticky. All these things happen and the blood will get sticky. And if you put the red and infrared, this is dual red light. Mm. Yeah. Well, I'll have to show a clip of this so you can see the visual, the red light is more for the blood tissue and every five minutes, five liters of blood pass through your nose at, so your Oxnard kind of powering up all that blood and it increases the flow. Blood flow. The infrared light has the ability to pass, perhaps because there's no restrictions into the prefrontal cortex, the ventral medial prefrontal cortex. Now, why is that important? Because impact injuries like this hurt the front of your brain. And if you happen to do the neurobiology of heart rate variability, one of the places that the cortical areas or the brain areas work is from the ventral medial prefrontal cortex, right? Here. So my studies showed that, uh, that this is intra‑nasal device will increase the oxygen consumption and the blood flow to the ventral medial prefrontal cortex. That's important because that's really what sending the signals down into your brainstem to kind of power this whole system up. And you're probably not powering the system up if you have hypo functioning here. So this is the whole circle. Okay. So if you hurt the brain, You hurt the heart rate variability, which reduces the function of the cardiovascular function of the cerebral cortex. And that sort of is a downward cycle back and forth. Remember, you have a traumatic brain injury, you really can't think too much better. So it would be smart to not allow a lot of stuff to come in to activate your brain. So it's kind of a fail safe. You follow where I'm going with this, that it's a, it's a downward spiral of, you know, you can't sleep, you can't recover. Your, your brain is not running your, your heart rate, heart rate variability in the way that it could the most optimized way. And you start to have this downward spiral of cognitive dysfunction, emotional dysregulation, that sleep disorders. And you just basically are not what you should be. You're you're, you're not. Pre‑injury level if you thought. Hmm. Yeah. W um, maybe you can help us understand to some of these panels. So they like how you broke down, uh, some of these red light options that are out on the market right now, they will, uh, one, you're making the great point of the proximity to the importance of having that close to you, which not everyone is doing. Uh, but then also for the brain in particular, some of them will actually say that you shouldn't use them on the head. Uh, do you know of why that would be, or why people have the. These call‑outs around that one. It sounds like there's so much importance to doing that. Yeah, I think that's a great question too, but you know, when you do the actual research and talk to the actual people, remember I've been doing neuro rehabilitation with light therapy for almost 20 years. Uh, I'd started doing a lot of neuropathy work, generating nerves, and we realized that, you know, it's only one, a nervous system. So if you got numb feet, you got numb brain and we really. He couldn't turn. I really didn't have the confidence to turn this light pads around and put it up on the head. There wasn't really enough research. And, you know, they were, we were getting in trouble taking care of her opposite, but we actually grew back the nerves and the feet. So I was like, Hey, if the feet get more nerves growing based on skin punch biopsies, you could actually count the nerves that are coming back. If their pain goes down, but their balance improves, you know, it then. What are we doing? We're actually changing the nervous system. So it wasn't until even around 2017 that they, there was enough evidence that says, Hey, put the light on the head. We were telling people to do it, you know, in quiet, we can't say, Hey, take this on your head, dude. Now I can drive the car. I mean, that's what they would tell us, but there really wasn't enough. I couldn't really put my, put it out there to say, Oh yeah, bring, even though it was a brain guy, you know, I just really wasn't enough evidence for me to say, yeah, this is Kunal work. There there's there's evidence now, but we don't have a foreman. We don't have a protocol at this point. I've me and a bunch of other researchers are working on that, but that's the, that's the scenario. That's the scenario. That's amazing. Yeah. I remember I was just pulling up one of our first, um, cause we've been communicating on social media for quite some time and I remember way back when I'm just pulling it up. Oh my gosh. Maybe we have too much. Oh, here we go. Uh, yeah, it was, I remember seeing some of your. Uh, some of your work, even back in, it looks like, I think like 2008, 18 or 19, uh, cause I just had never seen anyone doing what you were doing. So it's really been so cool to follow what you're creating really trailblazing. Uh, so, so a couple of things, maybe we can just, um, further, I know we've already been getting in the weeds on some of these topics, but, um, I know you mentioned beforehand, the glymphatic pump, uh, you know, we, we speak about this, uh, at different points on the podcast and yeah. In our newsletter and what have you, but, um, I liked how you, how you worded it. Glide glymphatic pump. I haven't heard as many people describe it like that. And I think it's a worth hearing from your take on a little bit of a rundown of why that's important for people that aren't as familiar with that and how that relates to this whole conversation. So let's just say, you know, the garden variety, traumatic brain injury, so yes, yes. Yeah. So you had a couple of them and everything like that. Well, no matter what happens in your brain toxic. You know, the trauma, even, you know, ruminating about thoughts can sort of clog up this brain and the glymphatic pump. You need these deep cycles and these big shifts in the, your sleep wave cycles to work that lymphatic pump. Now, the first time I heard about lymphatic pump was actually the best description. So the guy said, so you have the trash collectors. Oh in Manhattan. Right? And then they have to race around and collect all this garbage every night. What would happen? He said if the building's shrunk in the middle of the night so that the streets would get bigger so that the garbage trucks could whip around a lot quicker. And he said, that's basically what happens when you have it in your glymphatic system. And people didn't really even know that that existed back then. And it was like, yeah. So what happens is in the deep sleep stage, your brains slows down. So it doesn't have. Hi, metabolic calling. It's like, Hey, we're cool. Now do your work. So there may be some actual, you know, the astroglia cells and all the stuffs are working like crazy. And you have this pressure change in the brain and zoom is sorta like a power wash in that brain. If you don't get that stuff out, you really can't put anything in. How can you put a good nutrition and how can you put good thoughts? And how can you change this brain? If it's full of dunk, you can't do it. So really what my, you know, coaching. And one of the things that we, you know, teach people about is how to increase the circulation just before you go to sleep so that you have all the fluid that you need up there. So when you get going, you're going to have a good, better flush. That's really pretty insightful because that's really where it's going to start. You can't really put the nutrition in there. You can't really do that. All this stuff quickly and easily. And that's why the research with light therapy or photobiomodulation especially trans creative photobiomodulation. And my own research is rapid reversal of dementia from, from demented to normal in 28 days, without a whole lot of other stuff, just getting the system online. Remember things that people don't really understand is that a photo model. in general and transcranial and specifically drives the parasympathetic nervous system. It is a, it is something very easy to do to turn up your HRV and that's really not well well‑recognized. So we know that if you do transcranial photobiomodulation or any kind of amount, your depression symptoms go down, anxiety goes down, you know, your sleep is going to get better. Deep sleep is going to get better things, things like that. That really haven't come to light. We know that if you put. The light on people who to transcranial light or lasers most infrared red, or a combination of both, which my system does is that you're going to have a better brain. Your cognition is going to get better. Memory is going to get better. Caregiver, stress goes down, all these things. And w just as a note, uh, we found that the smell was restored. One of the only times that that happened. And when you look at the COVID long haulers, The thing that's going to knock you down is the cognitive decline and the, and it's, it's, it's a brain, it's a neurologic, it's a blood disorder. It's a neurologic disorder, it's an inflammation disorder. And that's why, you know, uh, photobiomodulation really, the good stuff is so helpful in COVID, you know, prevention and restoration just to let you know, cause we're going to need the stuff to fix all the gunk that we've piled up inside our brain when we get COVID. Absolutely. So you made so many good points in there. Um, uh, just to pluck out a couple, uh, I like what you said too, about the, um, the goal of increasing that circulation before bed. Cause it will get a lot of people asking, all right. Red light photobiomodulation uh, what do I do for timing? So is part of your protocol then too. Um, and, and certainly I'm sure that different points throughout the day is always presumably beneficial and yet, do you, um, have people anchor that as a nightly routine before bed? Well, you know, it's, uh, there's a lot of people that buy gadgets. You don't know people that take seminars and they like that, like a seminar junkie or, and I'm like a gadget junkie. And I liked the way you are. I mean, you get a lot of guests do, you'd say you want to test them, but I'm an implementation junkie. I'm very disciplined. And I do a lot of stuff, uh, in my routine. But I find that if you can, one of the things that people talk about Molly, I think he said, he's like, Oh, you can't make. You yourself go to sleep, but you can train your nervous system to be calm. You can train your nervous system to be grateful. And remember, my HRV score is, is I call it your happiness score, your joy score. So I'm not about, I'm about having a fulfilling life and a good brain and being a good person, have good relationships and all that is really connected to with your HRV. So remember you lose a lot of your humanity when your brain and the prefrontal cortex and stuff starts to go down. Yeah, you're not nice to be around, you know, and, and that's really ultimately what it is. So if you can't make yourself go to sleep, what do people do? They crash? And I try to tell them, you need, you don't have the skill yet. Thanks to Molly. It's a skill. You have to build the landing in for these people. So you have to build that wind down for them. And so what are they doing? They just crash. I said, that's what we don't want to do. We just don't want you to crash because it's not going to work. You need to land. So we built. Their routine so they can land to sleep softly, go to the netherworld. If you will sweet sleep, I gave you a tip. Again, everybody, a tip smile, as much as you can, before you fall asleep. I liked that one. That's actually something that I have not heard people say. And so simple yet. So effective and something that you can generate on a nightly basis and make that a habit. Uh, I love that. And Atlanta. It's nicely with what you spoke about with gratitude. Um, that's a big practice for myself and my fiance before bed. It's such a great thing to pull in. So I love that you said that, uh, and your joy score. Yes. Yourself, calm, make yourself safe, all those things that you talked about, all the things that people need to do. And you know, it's, it's a long process, so yes, you want to have a landing strip. So we want them, you know, why was it important to do it late at night? Why was it, how did, why did this help is basically. On round it. And I realized that, you know, I don't just have TBI. Yeah. I'd have CTE. I mean, I have the real one, the bad one. And that's why, you know, it was queued up it's was it's was hard. You know, it's a hard life when your brain don't work, you know? So I'm actually working hard on for my TBI and stuff. And I it's working, you know, it's working on brain scans, it's working on. You know, stuff that we're, that we're able to diagnose it or show this is a bad brain. This is a good brain. I'm getting better, you know, and clients are getting better people, but I've went from a person who couldn't, couldn't remember names of people couldn't remember names in when reading a book, you know, couldn't, you know, not doing too good on some levels. And then, you know, I had the cute EEG and guys said, you know, you have 95% probability, you had a traumatic brain injury and it's right. It's no joke, but you know, it's, since I've been doing the training, everybody said, Oh, you got a great memory. You got a great memory. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure I'm ambidextrous now. Amazing. All right. So that neuropathy topic, they're building all kinds of new neural pathways. Amazing. A quick question about your knowledge in the area of the brain and the glymphatic pump. And thank you for walking through that. Uh, Do you subscribe to any other college? So, you know, some people will talk about lifting the back of the bed up, uh, to further support that drainage function pillows, um, any, or certain sides side, sleeping versus back, sleeping any call‑outs there. I think you're going to have a good point there to hope. So I also suffered a different traumatic brain injury in and around 2009. I had a stroke, pretty common. It's actually a pretty common type of stroke. And. Uh, my bagel function went into the toilet. It, because it's right at the base of the brainstem. And so I had such erratic heart rates and I had all this stuff and, you know, they told me, you know, sleep with your bed elevated. You know what you're doing right there is you actually, you're trained in the barrel receptors in a different way. They're the ones that read your blood pressure in your neck. So the lightheadedness, when you stand up the bend over and stand up, things don't work, right. You know, sweats and things. You know, it's, it's definitely puts you in a state of sympathetic drive. You just can't regulate yourself. So sleeping with the bedding client is a good sort of crutch, basically, because you're are trying to give your Vegas nerve your vagal tone based from the very sectors in your carotid arteries and probably in your aorta, a little bit different tone, but if you're like me, you're also taking your own two levels. When you. Sweet correlating that with movement and sleep and snoring and everything like that. And mouth taping. I mean, I mean, I did all that stuff, everything to try it. So I think it's a crutch. I think it's something that we'll change. We'll make changes with people. I mean, I've been doing it since two thousands and back in the day, but really if you have a traumatic brain injury, you're a chance of having sleep apnea. Go way up the chances of you getting the proper oxygen to your brain going way down, because you're not going to be breathing it. Right. So I'm doing a whole lot of different changes. Uh, and actually, you know, anecdotally, they've shown that if you can put the photobiomodulation pads like here, you're going to increase the tone of those of your Basile pharyngeal muscles, which seems to be part of it. Right. So, yes, I highly recommend people use a mouth guard. I highly recommend that they get a mouth guard. They're if they're grinding and, you know, just look at your teeth, you know, if they're more down or if your dentist says, you know, he said, you got a chip, this tooth is cracked right here. I said, what do you mean? I know she could see it. And that's because I wasn't grinding, but because brain circuitry gets messed up. When you have a traumatic brain injury, things are spinning out of control. That's where you get this increased tension in the mouth, in the job and in the throat. So you're going to get tents at night grind, and you're going to close off your airwaves. So that's do you have to kind of fix that? So, yes, there's crutches that you can use, but if you get in there and actually work on the tone tone of these muscles, so sweet position is important, but I couldn't understand why I'm laying on my back and the things going off your as feel two is going down, down, down, like it's this it's my throat. It's my, I can't relax. You know, um, give different positions and things like that. Anything's effect that may anything's effective, but let's, let's paint with a broad brush that tell people, let's just see if we get more brain power or blood to the brain, more mitochondrial activity in the brain. Let's see if we can get this thing flowing, get the blood flowing a little bit better, more, more freely, and see what that does for you, and then pick it apart. Now. That's what we do with the coaching is personalized. Absolutely. I love that. And bringing your. Her knowledge and years of training into that, uh, kind of, uh, personalized perspective for that bio‑individuality is really important. Um, okay. So it's clear that you have lots of things to share in so many of these areas that can help make a difference, certainly with our sleep, but end or health in general. Uh, so what people have added on is, uh, uh, question is they want to know more about what, uh, the guests are doing that are, have such knowledge in this area. Uh, so we want to ask you a couple. Questions around your own personal sleep habits. And I'm sure you sound just like me or you're, uh, certainly for you and for years, uh, you know, have been playing with different ways of running things for your sleep. So I'm sure this evolves, but for right now, um, first question is what is your nightly sleep routine right now? So I have a series of about 20 HRV hacks. I call them and they're, you know, a lot of them are getting you to your bed at the right time and I'll send those out to anybody who wants them. And, uh, uh, but one of the things is, is, you know, sleep is about, uh, your circadian rhythm. So I'm, uh, I like to look at the sunset, look at the sky in the evening, and then I make sure I get rid of the garbage light as much as possible. I used to do the end of the candle light for awhile, you know, but. Just to give yourself, you have to learn to do a landing strip. You have to give these people time to wind down. And so one of the things that is, you know, is I drink my tea in the evening. I think that tea one is going to increase the fluid so that you have, you're not you're hydrated enough. So when you do make that push that Confederate pump pushes you're hydrated enough. Cause that's one of the main problems that people they're not hydrated enough and they can't get their push. The other thing that the warm tea does. And you could put all those herbs in there that you like. I didn't have a knife, whatever you like, that is a big, uh, helps you calm down. And that if you realize, if you can't cool, if you can't drop like one or two degrees, you, you, you kept trouble falling asleep. So even if you're in a warm place, drinking a hot team makes you cool down. So that helps you relax. Get into that relaxed state. Those are kind of real easy things to kind of make sure and of course stay off of your phone. Dimmer, you know, try to do it. I think it's nothing really great going on, you know, blue blockers, if you're watching TV, Netflix and chill, you know, some things like that. So I'm not as regimented as I used to be type of thing. Cause it's your whole body has to learn how to go to sleep. Understand your microbiome is wants to go to sleep. Everything wants to go to sleep. Just got to give it, let the body do what it's supposed to do. So of course there's herbs, there's hats. There's tons of things, but. One of the things that I would like to suggest to people who, and I don't think they're going to really pick this up is the waking in the middle of the night. So the waking in the middle, I remember there's lots of different things that happened throughout your sleep cycle and they're all important. And, uh, but this waking in the middle of the night and just hope you had a dream, you had a sympathetic blast. Of course, you're supposed to have that and you may wake up, but then you start to go through your day and you go through. The next day and go through the next day. And one of the things that's super hack that I found is if you put that light pad, since it's right near the bed, you stick it on your body someplace because it pushes that parasympathetic system. You go again and it's really good for you. It's good. If you put it on your tummy, it's good for the microbiome. So you know what I mean? You're you, you, you, it's a community. You're, you're, you're not just joke behind their eyes. You know, it's, everything wants to go to sleep. Your liver wants to take a break. You know, you can test them. Everything wants to do it stuff. So the other thing is like trying to like, hear that guy. He eats his dinner at 2:00 PM, dinner, 2:00 PM. That's a little radical. I mean, that guy's, that guy's strong me. I try to get it at sundown or I was asleep because why? Because why? Because blood in your gut does not give you blood for your brain. That's why you're priming or doing phatic pump by eating earlier. Remember that? Absolutely. Yeah. I, I have been one of those people, the 2:00 PM, uh, stop time on the dinner. Uh, and, but I'll kind of oscillate between the early time restricted feeding and then the circadian rhythm intermittent fasting, which gives it a little bit longer space. Uh, but absolutely you'll see the difference in the numbers. Um, of course, you know, managing stressors and not doing it to a point that it's a little much, but, um, but it can absolutely make a big difference in your so, right. So managing. And where is that blood going to go? What's going to be happening throughout the course of our night. And then you can also see it in, um, of course both you and I are fans of leveraging, uh, the workability of some of these wearables. And we'll see the difference in our heart rate numbers or HRV or body temperature or respiratory rate and beyond, uh, so really great points there. Okay. So, um, I also like, and acknowledged that you, in your, uh, nightly sleep routine, there wasn't too much reliance on supplements or what have you. And so. And I'm not saying that, you know, that's not certainly there's time and a place for a certain people to lean into that. And yet I like that so much of that is that behavioral element of things. Um, and really just making this more routine for us. So over time it just becomes automatic. Uh, and so the next question is what is on your quote unquote nightstand or even proverbial nightstands? So like, uh, gadgets, supplements, ambience apps, any of that? Well, you know, we're doing, uh, uh, you know, I'm wired before I go to bed. So all my, I have my pads, you know, I have my stuff to do my done with, do my deal, and I have my process and it's a good process. You know, it's something that you need to wind down. So I, I used to like to read, but I realized that it, that, you know, I put my helmet on and read and put my intra‑nasal on and read and everything like that. But I don't read that in embedded anymore. I just do my process and, and go to bed. So I'll have my European. My mouthpiece, my devices in my, all the things I got to turn on to get my bio data and, you know, make sure that everything's going in the right direction and to do my spot on things. And that's kind of, you are going to need all that other stuff. You're going to need the supplements. You're going to need the, everything to kind of, let me start to get the system back online. And, but paint with a broad picture, really just do the big things. And then you're. You know, like you're not going to have a great day relationship listening to a guy on the radio, talk about relationships. You know, it's going to be some general rules, but you better be specific about what you and your significant other are doing, you know, and you pointed that out so well that, you know, there's a lot of things that create stress. There's a lot of things that influenced your sleep, you know, and the resiliency that you have inside in your heart rate, variability and your ability to get up and. Down and experienced these ranges of emotions. That's what we're building. We're building bandwidth with our people. So you're going to need that stuff, but you shouldn't do it as a crutch. It should become better love that really well said. Um, okay. And then, so the last question is what was your, uh, kind of biggest sleep, maybe aha moment or biggest change to your sleep game? Well, well, I had an aha moment the other day. Hey, when I, uh, was putting on a, trying out a new chest, a heart rate monitor, you know, to get my data a little bit clearer, we want accurate data to make accurate conclusions. And when I say, listen, I got the, uh, the, you know, I'm in the top 3% of people in my age group of across all users of this stuff. It's like, Oh, your device is no good. Or you're this, you know what I mean? A lot of bullying out there in science, quote, unquote, supposed to be in these internet bullying. I'm not really down with that, you know? So I'm not like that guy. Questioning my, my, you know, my numbers. So I have one, I try to this new heart, heart rate, monitor thing to do it over the night. And I wake up in the morning and my SPO two is in the toilet. Everything's going down. No, that's terrible. Horrible. I am supposed to be the guy that fixes this stuff in handling it's going down. And, and it was about the afternoon after I got out of my funk. When I realized the chest strap was too tight. I couldn't, I couldn't expand my chest during the night and I was choking myself, you know, like that was an aha moment, you know? Sweet. Yeah, exactly. We have these goals of improving to next levels and sometimes it can hinder our results. Yeah. I love that. Uh, good. Well, I like the lightness around all that. The experimentation, the, um, kind of an equals one, um, uh, detective work that you've been doing for yourself, but then certainly, um, amplifying. To the many people that you've worked with over the years, uh, and then on those one‑on‑one relationships. So, uh, from that place, I know there's, what's likely is out of all this, you've sparked some thoughts for people. Um, certainly some brain activity during all this conversation. And so how can people, um, learn more about what you have, uh, what you're, what you're working on? Uh, I know you got a book, uh, in store coming and certainly different, uh, products that. You offer that really help, um, handle exactly what we've been speaking about in a thoughtful way. So let us know all the ways to be connected with you. Well, I'm, uh, I'm in, uh, you know, I'm on Instagram. I like to be on Instagram, talk to people. They're my underscore brain underscore matters. My brain matters. Um, we also, that's a good way to get can questions. Pro neural light.com is my website where you can look over the information and have a chat there if you want. Uh, we had the chat feature. Um, we also have the personalized coaching, uh, available to people if they, if they think that this is a lot to handle. And I think that there's also coming out with my book, which through a lot of the science of this, this stuff, uh, it's called the, uh, my, uh, my brain matters the neuro metabolic solution, how to increase brain power for your loved ones and yourself. Awesome. Well, I just want to say. That, um, I was struck by your passion, even those years back, uh, when I'd first seen what you're up to and continue to, uh, love the, the lens by which you look at these issues for people and really help expose things that people might have missed. Uh, and so I'm excited for more. I'm excited to read your book and thank you so much for taking the time to share all your wisdom with us. This is just really, really thought provoking and, uh, impactful. Thank you. Molly's pleasure. Awesome.