Dr. Dylan Petkus is on a mission to help educate and empower those with sleep apnea and other sleep issues to live fuller, healthier lives. Dr. Petkus knows firsthand the frustration of CPAPs and the daily struggles of brain fog, exhaustion, and the range of issues related to sleep apnea. Motivated by his struggles with sleep apnea, Dr. Petkus embarked on a multi-year-long research journey to uncover a different way to address sleep apnea. Dr. Petkus' innovative approach to sleep apnea is simple and effective. He discovered that snoring and sleep apnea can be addressed by simply restoring the body's natural breathing pattern. Now, he is eager to share this approach with the millions struggling with sleep apnea, snoring, and poor sleep. This way, people can wake up refreshed without relying on a CPAP, mouthguards, or invasive surgical proceduresb Dr. Petkus earned his Master of Science in Physiology at Pennsylvania State University, where he was awarded a research fellowship and was a peer-reviewed and published author. He earned his Master’s in Public Health and Medical Degree from the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine. Thereafter, he attended a residency in Family Medicine to help patients on the front line of chronic disease. Now, he helps people worldwide through education and coaching to overcome sleep apnea. Additionally, he hosts his own YouTube channel on everything related to sleep apnea and sleep. He currently lives in Tallahassee, Florida. For more information, please visit https://optimalcircadianhealth.com
Dr. Dylan Petkus is on a mission to help educate and empower those with sleep apnea and other sleep issues to live fuller, healthier lives. Dr. Petkus knows firsthand the frustration of CPAPs and the daily struggles of brain fog, exhaustion, and the range of issues related to sleep apnea. Motivated by his struggles with sleep apnea, Dr. Petkus embarked on a multi-year-long research journey to uncover a different way to address sleep apnea.
Dr. Petkus' innovative approach to sleep apnea is simple and effective. He discovered that snoring and sleep apnea can be addressed by simply restoring the body's natural breathing pattern. Now, he is eager to share this approach with the millions struggling with sleep apnea, snoring, and poor sleep. This way, people can wake up refreshed without relying on a CPAP, mouthguards, or invasive surgical proceduresb
Dr. Petkus earned his Master of Science in Physiology at Pennsylvania State University, where he was awarded a research fellowship and was a peer-reviewed and published author. He earned his Master’s in Public Health and Medical Degree from the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine. Thereafter, he attended a residency in Family Medicine to help patients on the front line of chronic disease. Now, he helps people worldwide through education and coaching to overcome sleep apnea. Additionally, he hosts his own YouTube channel on everything related to sleep apnea and sleep. He currently lives in Tallahassee, Florida. For more information, please visit https://optimalcircadianhealth.com
SHOWNOTES:
😴 Is a hidden breathing problem stealing your nights?
😴 How Dylan turned his sardine-can dreams into better breathing
😴 Why fixing your airway means more than just using a cpap
😴 What does “respiratory loop gain” mean for your sleep?
😴 How your tongue, nose, and soft palate team up to block your rest
😴 Box breathing, corpse pose, and other simple sleep apnea hacks
😴 Does your diet secretly worsen your airway at night?
😴 How a few millimeters in your airway can double your sleep quality
😴 When to keep your cpap and when to rethink your plan
😴 Why your daytime breathing shapes your nighttime sleep?
😴 The power of hypoxia training (yes, it’s safe!)
😴 How Dylan’s nightly amish routine keeps his circadian rhythm strong
😴 The biggest aha: sleep is not just a nighttime game
😴 How to learn more: Dylan’s book, videos, and apnea reset protocol
😴 Dr. Dylan Petkus invites you to try his proven breathing program risk-free for 7 days — and wake up clear-headed, rested, and energized. Click below to start today.
😴 And so much more!
SPONSORS:
🪟Ublockout— Can You STILL See Your Hand In Front Of Your Face When You Are In Bed? Well, you NEED to know about this company that will get on a Zoom call with you and help you measure your windows for a custom AND affordable blackout solution! Enjoy 10% OFF. Code: SLEEPISASKILL
🛌🏻 Transform your sleep with Eight Sleep’s cooling mattress—personalized temperature control that will boost your deep sleep & heart rate variability - all while dropping your wakeups, heart rate, & respiratory rate. Code: sleepisaskill
🧠 If You “Can’t Turn Your Brain Off” At Night…try a quality magnesium supplement that addresses ALL the necessary forms of magnesium that you need to support calming your nervous system and sleeping deeply. Https://magbreakthrough.com/sleepisaskill
GUEST LINKS:
Website: ochnow.com/thrive
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBN0GrxE7780vr5O2U5sO2w
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/OptimalCircadianHealth/
DISCLAIMER:
The information contained in this podcast, our website, newsletter, and the resources available for download are not intended to be medical or health advice and shall not be understood or construed as such. The information contained on these platforms is not a substitute for medical or health advice from a professional who is aware of the facts and circumstances of your individual situation.
Welcome to the Sleep As a Skill podcast. My name is Mollie Eastman. I am the founder of Sleep as A Skill, a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability, and behavioral change. As an ex sleep sufferer turned sleep course creator, I am on a mission to transform the way the world thinks about sleep.
Each week I'll be interviewing world-class experts, ranging from researchers, doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Ultimately, I believe that living a circadian aligned lifestyle is going to be one of the biggest trends in wellness, and I'm committed to keeping you up to date on all the things that you can do today to transform your circadian health, and by extension, allowing you to sleep and live better than ever before.
Welcome to the Sleep and Skill Podcast. Our guest today is Dr. Dylan Petkus, and he is on a mission to help educate and empower those with sleep apnea and other sleep issues to live fuller, healthier lives. Dr. PKIs knows firsthand the frustration of CPA PS and the daily struggles of brain fog, exhaustion, and the range of issues related to sleep apnea.
Motivated by his struggles with sleep apnea. Dr. PKIs embarked on a multi-year long research journey to uncover a different way to address sleep apnea. Dr. Pekkas innovative approach to sleep apnea is simple and effective. He discovered that snoring and sleep apnea can be addressed by simply restoring the body's natural breathing pattern.
Now he's eager to share this approach with the million struggling with sleep apnea, snoring, and poor sleep. This way, people can wake up refreshed without relying on A-C-P-A-P, mouth guards or invasive surgical procedures. Dr. Peck has earned his Master of Science in Physiology at Pennsylvania State University where he was awarded a research fellowship and was a peer reviewed and published author.
He earned his master's in public health and medical degree from the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine. Thereafter, he attended residency in family medicine to help patients on the frontline of chronic disease. Now he helps people worldwide through education and coaching to overcome sleep apnea.
Additionally, he hosts his own YouTube channel on everything related to sleep, apnea and sleep. He currently lives in Tallahassee, Florida. And for more information you can visit. Optimal circadian health.com. Now, a quick call out. One of the things that we addressed in this episode and that Dr. PKIs is always sure to underscore in his content is if you are currently using A-C-P-A-P, please don't just stop using your CPAP.
We know that C CCP a PS are highly effective and an important part of our journey with sleep apnea. I know that you'll be wildly empowered by the information that we discuss in today's episode of ways that you could in conjunction layer in some of these tools and protocols to support reducing the severity of your apnea, and in documented cases, being able to bring apneas down to no apneas in certain cases.
Now, of course, this actually does take a lot of stick-to-it-ness and commitment and research and learning. And so I do wanna make sure that we're very, very clear that you continue to treat your sleep apnea during this time while you explore some of these routes to hopefully get to the root cause of why are you experiencing this?
And often it is really a multifaceted journey. So let's jump in and first, a few words from our sponsors. Important question. Can you see the hand in front of your face, in your bedroom? If so, you need to hear about our sponsor who is revolutionizing the blackout shade space, and finally making it easy and affordable to get a truly blacked out bedroom.
So challenging in the past. Right? So introducing you Blockout, the ultimate solution for creating the perfect sleep environment, ensuring total darkness, comfort, and control. So why you block out in particular? Well, a hundred percent blackout guarantee comes with this product provides temperature, comfort all year round.
So keep your room warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer you block out helps and enhancing your sleep quality by maintaining a comfortable temperature regardless of the season. Acoustic noise reduction. Enjoy a quieter sleeping environment with you. Block out shades designed to minimize external sounds that can disrupt your.
Piece ideal for urban dwellers or anyone looking to reduce noise pollution, customizable and easy to install, tailored to fit your space with a simple 30 minute installation process, you blockout makes it hassle-free to achieve the perfect sleep setting. Ensuring your bedroom is a sanctuary for sleep and for listeners of the Sleep is a skill podcast.
Use the code. Sleep is a skill for exclusive 10% off and embark on the journey to unparalleled sleep quality. Remember, light is the number one external factor affecting our sleep with you blockout, your not just investing in a blackout shade, you're investing in your health, wellbeing, and quality of life.
So again, go to U Blockout, spelled the letter U Blockout, and use code sleep as a skill for a discount. If you're listening to this podcast, you're likely looking to improve your sleep. And one of the first questions people ask me about sleep is what supplement they can take. One supplement I've consistently taken for ages is magnesium, specifically by optimizers Magnesium breakthrough.
It's an all natural supplement that helps reduce fatigue, improve sleep quality, and promote peaceful rest. It also strengthens muscles and improves heart and brain function. Most magnesium supplements aren't full spectrum, but magnesium breakthrough contains an optimal ratio of all seven essential types of magnesium.
Now imagine having the strength and energy to get outta bed every morning, face the day boldly, and maintain that energy throughout the day and into the night. If you wanna give it a try, go to buy optimizers.com/sleep as a skill and use the code, sleep as a skill to get gifts with your purchase. And this is a limited time offer, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the results.
And welcome to the Sleep is a Skill podcast. This is an exciting episode because it's a almost a reunion of sorts because we are just chatting with our guest that years ago, years and years ago, we had connected and he was so generous to share lots of wisdom in this area of circadian health and sleep optimization back when I was working on around a project of putting together all kinds of things around sleep.
And then it's, here we are again reuniting. So this is gonna be a lot of fun. But not only that, I'm really just encouraged by some of the work that our guest is putting out into the world to offer some alternative ways of thinking about things in the world of sleep, including, I think one of the things we'll especially be double down on, double downing on is that a thing is sleep.
After it's now it's okay, it's now sounds like it could be X-rated or something. But double doubting God. Okay. So Dylan, thank you so much for taking the time to be here.
Of course. Thanks for having me.
Yes. Oh my goodness. Now, there's a lot of directions I know we could go, but I think we might wanna just begin at the beginning of how did you find yourself in this kind of intersection of health optimization, sleep optimization, circadian health, sleep apnea, you know, tell us all the things.
Yeah, so my parents met at a work conference and, no. So, uh, I mean, they did. Um, and my, my dad, his great pickup line was, what's an ida? My mom's name is Ida, and that's, that's why we're here. Beautiful. One bad joke. Beautiful. One bad joke can change your entire life, everyone. Um, but in all seriousness, um. I mean, I think with so many sleep journeys, it's kinda like research is really from research of where like, you know, your sleep falls apart.
Yep. And it's like, okay, well you go to the doctor and it's like, Hey, do you wanna take your pick? Do you want an SSRI? Do you want a CPA? Do you want surgery? No. Um, no thanks. Yeah. And then just like diving into really trying to figure out like what the heck is going on wrong here with all these things and, um, learning a, a ton, uh, how much of it was always useful?
I don't always know. I mean, like, my God, the amount of podcasts I would, I would download them. So like listen to them on triple speed. 'cause I think back in the, I'm not sure that's an option now, but back in the day, two X was like the thing, but I would go for three x speed. Um, and just that is dedicated.
I've done the two x, but the three X is like a whole other level. That's amazing.
Yeah. So if anyone wonders why talk fast? There you go. Um, exactly. That's why that happens. But yeah, like my sleep was like, oh geez. Like I probably wake up like every 60, 90 minutes. Um, and like I, like I even developed this like, recurring dream of being a, uh, 'cause when you have sleep apnea, you're like, I did, even though I look like I'm 15, which I appreciate.
Um, you start to have these like bad dreams that kind of come along with, uh, waking up. So I had this recurring dream. I was a sardine and a sardine can
what? Trying to
break out. Yeah. Weird, right? It is weird.
Um,
yeah. But it, it made sense. 'cause like I would like wake up kinda like this. I'm like, I'm getting outta the can.
Yeah. Maybe it means something more cosmic. I don't know. But yeah, let's not go too deep on that.
But I think I had a dream person coming on. Maybe we can throw that at them.
That would be, yeah. Ask them. So there's one guy he was. What do you got it? It was just like miserable. Just like probably two, three hours of sleep on average.
Oof. Um, at least I had my bulletproof coffee. Um, that worked, um, in a way.
Yes.
And it was just like awful. So then I like had to kind of like figure out like, okay, why? Why is my sleep so crappy? Yeah. Uh, and that's just where I start to learn about like breathing, circadian rhythms, yada yada, yada, and the whole thing there.
I will expand on the yada, I assume.
Okay. Fantastic. Well, I relate so much to everything you're sharing. I think I shared with you along the way that my journey began with just absolutely abysmal sleep. So I completely relate to what you're sharing about. You know, in certain, it sounds like for many people tuning in and listening, they're dealing with some form of dissatisfaction with their sleep.
Whether it's an acute situation where they're struggling with their sleep right now and they want support like immediately. We've also seemed to have a decent group of people that are these optimizers that are looking to take their sleep to the next level. So now that you've been doing this for many, many years, and I know you've been helping to support so many people with their sleep, my understanding is you've also in recent years, really, really doubled down on why do I keep saying that?
Really, really understood. It's the new
phrase. It's Trendy's, the new phrase. It's, you'll see it on Twitter, double, double downing.
Who knows where that came from? But you know, really have gone in to help support people with sleep apnea especially. And so if you can share more, is this from your own sort of tinkering yourself?
What draws you there?
Yeah, so I mean, well that's when I went to the sleep medicine doctor to get the sleep study, which is like the. That's a whole nother three hour podcast. But, um, you know, you, you go there and it's just like, sleep normal. Cool. Great. That that's the equivalent of when someone sneaks up behind you and says, don't freak out.
Like, yeah, it's gonna go well. Yeah. And I had, you know, moderate sleep apnea, which didn't really make any sense. I, like, I look somewhat similar than I do now, maybe less geeky. Um, but it, it was just like a, a mystery and I didn't wanna be someone who was getting surgery or like, um, paying like five, 10 grand for like an oral appliance and all this stuff.
Yeah. So being the, the stubborn person I was and still am, uh, I was just like, all right, well how else can we kind of fix this? 'cause it's, it just seems, um, crazy to me. It's like, we ha there's this breathing problem. We're not gonna like actually work on your breathing patterns. Yeah. You know? No, just put the mask on here you go there.
Yeah. Um, so I started to like dive a lot deeper into that in learning how, um, really like, 'cause I know, like we were talking a little bit earlier about like, you know, nose stuff. Keep it simple.
Yes. Yeah. Um, but at the end of the day, with like sleep apnea specifically, it's all, it all like leads to this like same common problem, which a lot of people don't know.
'cause when people like, they, they reach out to me like, I got an email yesterday and you ever see those emails and someone's like, here's 13 paragraphs about your nose, about my nose that you didn't ask. Where we, here you go. Yes. Or someone's like, oh, I have a big tongue, or my, my jaw is recessed. All these things are still happening, but they still lead to the same common mechanism, which people don't really know, which is just like Right.
Kind of the spot where, like if you were kind of imagine a cross-sectional diagram, uh, where like your tongue, your soft palate and kind of the, the rear of your throat, that kinda just all like closes in on itself.
Hmm. Regardless of its uh, like a turbinate issue with your, a nose problem. Like you kind of have a narrow nose.
Yeah. Uh, passageway or you have, uh, an overbite or if you have a en like it's all the same thing, which is kind of like complex issue now. Simple issue. Right. Um, and that happens 'cause like over time when you have some sort of narrowing in your airway, like we were talking about before, it will then affect your breathing rate.
Yeah. Because now the challenge is your body still needs the same amount of air and now like you have to breathe through a straw. And if your eighth grade gym teacher or whatever health class you had was. A good, outstanding citizen and try to make you breathe through a straw. You're probably wondering where I'm going with this.
Mm-hmm. Try to breathe through a straw to tell you to never smoke cigarettes in your life. Um, that's kind of the same idea. Yeah. It's like that's how your body is now breathing.
Mm. And then it becomes this like, ingrained process. It's called a respiratory loop gain. Like if someone's like, this guy's making all this stuff up.
Yeah. It exists. Or at least there's fictional papers, you know, published last like 40 years on this. Um, take your pick. And when that breathing pattern develops, then that becomes the actual like, trigger to the whole thing.
Mm. So like so many times, like with, with people on health shows, they always talk like there's these things that can predispose your risk, right?
Like, uh, I think genetics is a great one. Yes, they're there, but like, you also need like a trigger. You have like dynamite, you need a match.
Yeah. Okay. So, 'cause if you have a bunch of dynamite, it's, well, I would imagine relatively safe. I don't know. I don't stock a bunch of dynamite just to prove the point.
Yes. Uh, but if you don't like match it, it's fine. But with the breathing pattern, over time it worsens, it becomes fast and irregular. And as a result, just like, uh, whether it's like a breeze going by and like if, like, well, if you've ever driven your car with the window open with important documents in the passenger seat mm-hmm.
This is the same physical event. Yeah. Where kind of the low pressure then sucks stuff out. So when you breathe really fast, it creates an area of low pressure in the back of your throat and then has a vacuum effect there. That's what happens. I'm gonna wave my hands frantically to emphasize the point.
This is a strong scientific principle. This is what happens in almost all cases of obstructive sleep apnea. That it is very effective. I was doubling down. This is what this is for those watching. So then when I learned that, it's like, oh, okay. It becomes very freeing. Like, okay, I don't need to go down this rabbit hole of all these different things.
Now I'm not saying all those things don't work. 'cause like you, you had that positive response to the, the nose, uh, piece there. Sure, sure. Um, but like the thing is, and even when they, they look at people who get surgeries 'cause um, I would imagine and hope any good surgeon, you're gonna say, Hey, like, based on the research over here, you know, there's like a 40, 50% chance of this working.
Yeah. Okay. Um, and we had to ask ourselves when that happens, like, well, like why the 60%? What's kind of going on over here and what they actually find. One of the biggest predictors of that will be someone's respiratory loop gain. Mm. So call me crazy, which I mean, I guess some people do. Strange but interesting is what I get and when you know, I address that for myself.
Just like kind of, I mean just kind of rewiring your breathing and getting that next, then like things slow down so that regardless of your anatomy Yeah. Then things are able to work more properly. So you may have a big tongue, that's cool, but like if you don't have this fascia irregular inhale specifically, it's far less of a problem there.
Wow. Okay. So I appreciate that. And so with this. I know you even put together many, many resources for people that maybe are in similar situations to what you experienced, where they've been diagnosed with sleep apnea, or maybe they suspect sleep apnea, and they're looking for alternatives. Things that they can do to potentially see what else is available beyond CPAP, oral appliances, palette, expansion, et cetera.
And so how do you work with people on some of those questions? How do we think about this? So for like when people have those individual pieces, there.
Yeah. So yeah, they come to you and now they're saying, every other doctor I'm talking to or sleep professional is saying, I gotta get the CP Pap or what have, what's the course of action that they can start to think about.
But, and I get the sense too, of what I know of your content, it's also gonna take something from the individual, if I'm understanding you correctly, it's gonna be some multifaceted things, right? Mm-hmm. So behavioral interventions, nutritional, how they're breathing, et cetera, I believe, yeah. Let the listeners know what they could expect.
Yeah. So, uh, it is the, this won't make sense. I'm gonna say this, it won't make any sense. This is, I guess, singular downing, but, um, it is about the. Airflow through the tube that is your airway. And then like the tube itself. Okay. They're kind of like two sides of the same coin. Let's explain that. So the air moving, uh, going through that will be dictated by like, how can you sort of retrain your breathing?
So for instance, a lot of people when, uh, say they go to yoga class and then like you do the, I don't know what it's called, like when you're supposed to act like you just lay there and you're like, dead. I forget. Oh yes, it has a better name than what I just said. That's or co pose. They even do call it copo.
There you go. Attractive. The vasa is prettier. Yes. Yeah, that sounds a lot better. But like afterwards, people feel so relaxed and also if they were to like consciously bring their attention, their breathing rate would be a lot reduced.
Yeah. We didn't change your anatomy unless something weird happened in Corus pose.
But like, you know, it's, it's just a example of like, if you actually focus on conscious, slower breathing, then that will start to rewire how your, your brain is going to breathe at night. Because one of the biggest things someone should be thinking, uh, if they disagree with me, and I encourage that, is, um, hey, last time I checked, like I can't really control how I breathe at night.
It's not like, you know, if I could stop snoring, I would just not. Right.
Uh, and you're right, because how you breathe at night is an autonomic process. It's, it's just an automated sort of neural loop, just like muscle memory where you ride a bike or they should have other examples besides ride a bike, but you get the idea.
Um, so your body just from like. Having this narrow, uh, passageway now, it's now sort of wired for faster breathing. So you just gotta use sort of certain techniques, uh, which the simplest way we can, like, I mean most people I think, know what box breathing is. Uh, that's an example of one of where if we do box breathing for a five count all the way around, five in five pause, five out five, pause five in.
Um, for those people counting at home, that'd be like three breaths per minute. Whereas like a normal respiratory rate is somewhere around like, you know, 12, 16 at rest, that's like way slower. Yeah. So it's kind of, you adjust it back and then your body will be a little bit slower at night. So that's like, probably like the, out of all the different things we do, that's probably like the most effective thing of um, being able to like drive those results.
'cause if you can reset your breathing, it'll last for a couple hours, uh, and then like kind of go back to a normal thing, but you keep doing that like night in, night out, et cetera, that's gonna be really, really pivotal. Uh, the other piece is then also to your point, like, yes, people will have. Big floppy tongues or, you know, an overbite or, uh, different issues with their nose, et cetera.
So when people like, will like, kind of submit their, their stuff to me, pictures, videos, et cetera, then, uh, whether it's like certain breathing exercises, like we had a guy with a, I think, did he have a terminate reduction? I forget. But like, you know, specifically nasal breathing was a big thing for him. So we're gonna focus on like different nasal breathing, whether it's like alternate nasal breathing, et cetera, so on and so forth.
Um, you know, some people they have like, like their, their palate is like, I. So low. It's like something I'm like, whoa, hey, who put that there? Uh, and doing like strengthening exercises for that, that help like stretch it, like stretch it and like strengthen it. So it's not like falling back or their tongue.
Very common when their tongue is like, if this is, if this is like the back of the airway, like their tongue is kind of like too far back. Okay, well let's do some exercises during the daytime to bring it like up and out and away there, just so we're able to. Um, just do everything we can to keep those muscles sort of out.
Um, that's probably one of the more individual things because, you know, uh, I mean, I guess you could just do all like 13,000 things you find on Facebook. You know, it's like, oh, the, the jaw sizer and the, and the yes and the, I call it the makes your life suck straw, where you like,
ah, yes. You know what I'm talking about the milestone I do the Yeah, the re replenish or what have you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if you, if you just really hate enjoyable, simple things, this is for you. Um, but that, that can be actually really helpful for people who have that specific problem. But if, like, someone's using the straw, but like that really need to be focusing on say, their tongue, like, you know. Yeah.
So that's what we do where it's like assigning those specific exercises, uh, to those. So that's kind of like the, probably the more approachable, obvious stuff, but then kind of coming back to the yoga class, like not only are you breathing slower. Because you just like practice, like breathe in, breathe out, and it was a lot slower.
But also your nervous system is coming way down. Yeah. And people know, like when they're anxious and nervous, like you breathe faster. So a lot of times, um, people will be like, in this kind of high strung state and like, we try to breathe, exercise, et cetera. But like if we don't actually get their nervous system to calm down, whether it's with like meditation or biofeedback, whatever, like we can huff and puff and hold all ding-dong day and it's not gonna do anything.
Yes. Because like they're like this. Totally. Um, yeah. And, and then a lot of the other, 'cause again, it's not like really always approachable 'cause the idea like, well your, your mitochondria are gonna affect your breathing rate. Really big disconnect.
Yeah. What talking about here, especially when we're just told like, well you need to see like, it's, it's, it's thought to be this very mechanical, physical issue, which it is.
So then the idea of like, well make sure, you know, you're mining your body circadian rhythms, your mitochondrial, like, it just doesn't really connect. Right? But the, the biggest connection is understanding that the primary driver of breathing is going to be carbon dioxide, CO2, the, the metabolic exhaust, which comes directly from your mitochondria.
So that's like the, the just straight link to where if they're like producing just big swings and CO2 'cause they're inefficient, then that's gonna affect how your body's gonna try to ventilate itself. So again, like working on things like nutrition or supplementation or, uh, their environment, all those things that would then influence the mitochondrial influence, how you're sleeping and, and so on and so forth There.
So.
Love that. No, so comprehensive and, and I appreciate you said it so well 'cause it can just be confusing for many people to make that bridge of mitochondria for my sleep apnea. But I know you are a great teacher and able to help kind of connect those dots for people over time. So a lot of this too will take much more education than, you know, a short podcast allows for.
But I love hearing too this multifaceted approach for a problem that. Appears to be really going uphill of the amount of people that are now struggling with this that we're distinguishing, are really, really suffering. And yet a lot of the things that you're pointing to seem to be some modern day problems.
You know that if we reverse engineer that there's something much more at the root of this that could also really improve the experience of life that they have by working on these things, like their breathing, these myofunctional exercises, and then this kind of multifaceted approach. So I love that. If you've tuned into the show or followed any of our content here at Sleep as a Skill, you may have heard that everyone that we work with wears the Ora Ring, and as a result, we have amassed a very large database of Ora Ring users and get to see what really moves a needle for people when it comes to their sleep measurably.
Now, because we have so much data around sleep optimization, many ask what they can do to improve their sleep quality. And for years, my answer has been that one of the few things I've seen make such an. Overnight difference is the use of a quality cooling mattress topper, not just any ordinary topper that claims to be cooling with like gels or what have you, but an actual cooling topper that uses water and can be dynamically adjusted to suit your unique needs and preferences.
Now, this is why I am so excited to announce that eight Sleep is now an official sponsor of the podcast. I have tested various cooling mattress toppers and fan systems over the years, and none of them have come close to the innovative and customizable. Seamless nature of the eight sleep system. Not only does it have an autopilot feature to intelligently adjust the temperature of the topper to work in alignment with your body's needs, but it also has additional features that truly set it apart.
So with eight sleep, you can enjoy advanced sleep tracking, allowing you to monitor key metrics like heart rate, heart rate variability, and sleep stages all integrated seamlessly into the app. It also has a dual zone temperature control, which means that you and your partner can each set your own ideal sleep temperature, plus the gentle rise wake up Technology uses temperature and vibration to wake you up gently and naturally avoiding the jarring sound of an alarm.
But it doesn't stop there. There's more, more, more. So the system even includes a smart alarm feature that wakes you up during your lightest. Sleep phase. I know a lot of people have asked me about this, and this is included in here within a customizable time window, ensuring you wake up feeling refreshed and ready to start your day.
And for those of you who struggle with snoring eight, sleep has an anti snore feature that adjusts your sleep environment in real time to help reduce snoring and improve overall sleep quality. So this is truly a game changer for anyone serious about optimizing their sleep. So if you're ready to take your sleep to the next level, head on over to eight, sleep and use the code.
Sleep is a skill, all one word at checkout for a discount. So how does this look to, I know you have books available and I believe courses and one-on-ones or so, how, if someone's listening and saying, oh geez, it sounds like I need to go in more deeply on this topic and be, you know, guided a bit more. What might that look like for people?
Yeah, so by the time this is out, we should have a book on Amazon. Fingers crossed. Yes. Uh, if anyone's ever. You would imagine, like just making a book is not simple as copying pasting for Microsoft. Yes. It's crazy. I'm like crazy. I can print it out at home. What do you mean? Yeah, so true. Uh, so that would be there.
Uh, our YouTube channel is, I would say it's the best YouTube channel I've ever met. Uh, have a lot of resources, uh, there to check out. Yeah. Um, just for people to kind of get the concepts, uh, too, because it is kind of a, like one of the, the videos with the most views right now is like how nutrition relates to sleep apnea.
Mm.
And when I made it, I was like, no one's gonna, nobody cares. No one's gonna really, and then like, like as of today, I think it's like at 180,000 views. I'm like, why do you all like this? Um. Well,
tell us what were some of the takeaways out of that? What spoke to people?
Yeah. So the, well, what spoke to people was the amount of times I said, okay.
And so they, they, they let me know I have, uh, over a thousand people in the comments as my, you know, there, there's just so many, so generous speech trainers out there. I, I'm amazed. Fantastic. And then also my artistic skills, but I'll give them that one. They're, they're awful.
But the point being is that your body, like whatever metabolic state's gonna be, it's gonna use different things.
So like when you're, like, if you're running a lot, well, you may use more, uh, carbohydrates if your body's into that, or maybe you're like super keto, your keto Carl and your body's gonna use more fatty acids and ketones, et cetera. But like, when we think about like diseases, like sleep apnea is like, we're not like, oh, like I wonder if there's different nutritional demand.
Like, is there. There is. Yeah. 'cause it's such a different state. So like, when your body doesn't get adequate rest, there's gonna be one mass amount of inflammation, two, and then a lot of strictly carbohydrate metabolism. And then like, those two together will then lead to different, like, micro deficiencies.
So it's this like web of like, you have to eat carbs 'cause like your body, 'cause I, because another big thing with sleep apnea, it's really hard to lose weight. Uh, not only 'cause of metabolic, uh, limitations, but it's also like a Ponzi scheme. It's like, I'm tired, what should I do? Oh, I should work out, but I, I need energy to work.
Like it just becomes a yes. Totally cycle, zero sum gain. Yeah. Um, so with that, the, the biggest things you'll see are that people, like, they'll become too reliant on carbohydrates, which will just become this kind of. Is it shooting yourself in the foot? Is that the same? Is that what you
would say? I think that is the one, yeah.I don't know.
You're in, I don't know, you're in Texas, but I'm close enough. Um, the, uh, because it'll start to deplete nutrients, so people need to kind of not go like completely ketogenic. 'cause then like their bodies still aren't really ready for that. But just like getting to a reasonable amount of carbohydrates, let's just throw a number out there, whether it's just like around a hundred grams a day, which may sound like I just like, completely destroyed someone's carbohydrate consumption.
It's still okay. People. Yeah. Um, and just having like, you know, healthier fats and things of that nature, just like a simple shift like that, uh, because your body won't be able to fully go to fat burning mode, but you're just gonna be you, like you, biochemistry is more or less addicted to carbohydrates in that state.
Hmm.
Then the other thing on top of that, before we get to like the specific nutrients, sure there's gonna be certain very inflammatory foods for the airway. So as all of you may not know because it's not true. I'm a singer, I'm not. So, uh, but if you were a singer. There's certain foods and items and beverages that I've been told, uh, most don't like to consume around an event.
So whether it's, usually the big ones are like milk or dairy, et cetera. Uh, coffee, caffeine containing things, or just really like anything that cause like some sort of like nasal congestion, any of these foods that lead to the production of Mucus. And I would say like very caffeine. Oh, and grains is is the other big category that's also gonna impact how you breathe.
Hmm. Like
dramatically. So like we were talking about before, like procedure with radio waves is not like screaming like, oh, we cut out a whole bunch of stuff. Wow. Look at all it. Like that's not what that is. Yeah. But nonetheless, you're like, you feel like you've gone from driving bumper to bumper on like the LA interstate to like good old country roads sort of thing.
Yeah. Uh, because of. The physics of flow here. Yeah. So when you breathe like all that, there's gonna be a certain amount of airway resistance. So if you have a cold, you're gonna have high airway resistance. If your mom, um, makes you sniff hot sauce when you have a cold like mine, mine did,
uh, the resistance goes down.
I don't know how that works. I've never actually looked it up. I've just, I'm like, love it mom. Science. Yes. And, uh, why isn't that a trending thing? There's so many those It should, I know. So many questions. So many questions. So it'll open it up.
Yeah. But the thing is like, even though it feels dramatic, the change is not
mm-hmm.
The, the actual change in the radius, which, if you imagine a circle that's like halfway across the center, the radius, but the thing is the amount of like resistance or flow you have through an airway is related to the radius to the fourth power. Which is like a lot if, yeah. You know, for people who like to look at exponential graphs and stuff.
The simplest example I can give is if you go from any limita, 'cause here's the other thing. The smallest narrowing in your airway will dictate the entire thing. It's the bottleneck.
Mm.
So even if like, oh, you know, this part of your airway's great. But then if your nose is like this, like, doesn't matter how pristine or Yeah.
So on and so forth is, so if you change, this is kind of the usual calculation. I'll, I'll give, so let's say you're at, uh, 1.5 centimeters in some part of your airway. All right. 1.5 centimeters. If we go from, and I'm gonna make you guess by the way, and you can't bring out a calculator if you go from 1.5 to two centimeters, which is, um, I think it's about the width of a credit card is about half a centimeter.
How much do you think that changes the airflow?
Oh, I have no idea. Tell me.
It doubles, it really will double. Interesting.
So that's how like when, like something as simple as like, don't have dairy. Uh, okay. So YouTube doctor's telling me dairy's gonna like, oh, like it doesn't really click, but, right. Uh, I think I explained that in that video.
I'm not sure. I really don't even know what's in that video anymore. Oh my gosh.
Um, that's kind of the, the basic premise of like, cutting out these inflammatory foods. That's just a start. 'cause I, as you had many other guests talking about diet, like there's so many different things that can lead to.
Inflammation individual, but that's just like the beginning. Um, 'cause another video I did was on carnivore, um, people, like people in the comment, I didn't expect this. I was like, I was literally just going, I was like, well, I have an alphabetical list of topics I wanna talk about. And carnivore was pretty high up.
And people would comment like, oh, I did this and I stopped snoring like the same night. I'm like, well, that's pretty fast. Uh, but it's because of like the, you know, reduced in inflammation profile that would come from like cutting out all these processed foods, et cetera.
Hmm.
Um, so that's that aspect. And then where was the third one?
Oh, nutritional efficiencies. So it, it's very similar in that to when you have a very carbohydrate dependent metabolism. So probably the top two are gonna be fineing and magnesium. Those are gonna get depleted real fast as they say. And then it just creates a scenario where then, um, you're depleted of those, but then like the most efficient.
Pathway out of like protein, carbs, and fat. Even though like it's gone down, it's still carbs and it creates this like unsustainable downward cycle of like continuing to complete those nutrients. Um, there's a few others that's probably like the, the top two that like across the board for, for people with sleep apnea.
There. Wow. Okay. That's amazing. Well, thank you for kind of breaking some of that down. And I think it just kind of speaks to how this is such a big topic and it's not necessarily as easy as, you know, get a piece of plastic and sleep with it at night, that there's so much else that is available for people.
And would you also make the call out that this can, all these kind of principles could be used in conjunction with people's current treatments if they are, you know, they've been on CPAP for years and they wanna bring some of these in.
Yeah. So I never try to rock the boat. I do know there is the, I think it's more of the detox world.
It's like, Hey, you're gonna welcome to pain for the next four weeks, but you'll feel great afterwards. Yeah. I try to avoid that. Yes. Yeah. Um, as much as I can, but it's also like not safe, obviously. Yeah. Uh, more so on the CPAP side. Sure. It can also be for the mouth guard side, but it, it's definitely the most dramatic with the CPAP for certain individuals.
And a, the biggest reason is it's gonna take. At least, well, let me give you like the optimistic, so like at least two weeks for like, someone to really feel profound shifts from like the breathing exercises. There are some people who like, they email me and it's like, oh my God, I did these for two nights and oh my God, like I wanna name my, my child after.
I'm like, thanks. I don't dunno how to respond to that one. Yeah. Um, so it, it, it will vary, but the breathing pattern is the, you know, correct. But then also when it corrects the, like A-C-P-A-P, it will actually start to work better because CPA Ps are so uncomfortable and they, they don't work when there's a lot, there's really high airway resistance.
'cause when there's higher airway resistance, then the machine will. I know there's like 17,000 different models. Yeah, I'll speak for the majority of them. Uh, they may start to increase the pressure automatically and then that becomes more and more uncomfortable. And then people will say like, oh, I like the cpap.
I feel like it hurts my sleep. Well. Yeah, 'cause like it's, it's having to pump out more air, but if you correct a breathing pattern, then there's less airway resistance and then you can breathe a lot more easily with it. That's the, that's the good thing. But the, then the other reason is when people are using A CPA, yes, we need to correct that breathing pattern.
That's the CO2 side. Because when you. Use A-C-P-A-P-C O2 is pretty much just brought artificially low 'cause you're constantly ventilating with a continuous pressure or even like bio pressure. Yeah. Uh, just continuous ventilation that would prevent CO2 from even really getting to like a good normal range.
Which is why when they look at respiratory loop gain, everyone's favorite new thing. Talk about, yeah. Uh, when you use A-C-P-A-P doesn't change. It sometimes even gets worse often, but then the other side of the coin is hypoxia. So like CO2 and so hypoxia, low oxygen. So CO2 tolerance is the thing we need to really improve.
But then hypoxia, like, that's kind of the, like the lagging indicator, your tolerance to hypoxia and also avoiding it altogether because that's the thing that is like destroying your heart, destroying your brain, destroying your, like all is the, uh, intermittent hypoxia. I. You can think about someone like choking you out in the middle of the night for like 10 seconds at a time.
Yeah, that's what that is. Pleasant imagery. Yeah. Um, so with that, a big part of what we'll also uh, incorporate in people's breathing routines is some level of improving their tolerance to hypoxia, which I know sounds so scientific, but it's just improving your maximum breath whole time.
Yeah, because right, it, it's this idea of there's like resilient hypoxia and then there is like kind of, you can think of like fragile, the, the actual terms would be, uh, adaptive versus maladaptive.
So when you allow someone to have like in a safe space, like hold your breath, blah, blah, blah, and they're able to increase their maximum breath hold time, their cells in their body are gonna be more resilient to hypoxia as opposed to when it's at night and things are just constantly getting thrashed around and there's no way for your body to adapt.
So you wanna see both of those improve someone's hypoxia tolerance and also their, their breathing pattern before we're even thinking about like. Lower pressure, uh, doing half on half. What I mean by that is you start like the first half of the night with it on, or vice versa, like you go on then off.
Because usually most people, the cpap they wake up in the middle of the night. Um, and it's good just to have like kind of that metric of like, what do things look like with it on versus with it off. Uh, but doing it in a very, very safe manner. 'cause I mean, some people they come in, they're this, um, so CPAP pressures can like really range.
Uh, four would be like the lowest setting. I mean, I've seen newer models like go up to 16, 18, or 20. I'm like, you could fill up a tire with that thing. Probably not. Right. But,
yeah. Feels like that's a lot. Yeah.
Obviously if someone's on a higher one, it's gonna take more time to safely step down. Mm-hmm. But once someone gets the four, it's, that's basically like zero and CPA pressure land.
Yeah. Um, then just can kind of flip off and, and then be able to, but you, you, it's really important to monitor that with some overnight pulse oximetry. This is not like, you know, how do I feel? No, no, no. It's like, yeah, right. And you can, but it's important to track those, uh, hypoxic events at night.
Totally. And do you have a recommendation for trackers to use for that, or does it depend?
I do. Well, specifically for this, one of my favorites, I'm not sure, like where they even get their device from. It's Concord Health, someone like random company. It's not on Amazon. Yeah. But I, and it, it's, you need a pc, not a Mac.
So sorry if you have Mac. Sorry.
Yeah. Um, but it's, uh, like a little wearable pulse socks that like actually stays on. That's like the first part of the battle.
Yeah, totally.
And it's on a wristband. And then every morning, or just whenever you just, uh, take a little USB, you plug it in and it gives you like a nice, beautiful graph.
Never sure if you've seen them, but it's like, here's your heart rate, here's your oxygen levels throughout the night. And it gives a really good depiction, um, for like, well definitely for me and, you know, for the clients to be able to see like, okay, here's how things are. Uh, there, there is another one. I think it's.
WellView WellView. Yeah. Something like that. Um, the accuracy, like I feel Concord is more accurate than that. I'm not an affiliate of either, but Yeah. Concord, if you're listening, um, uh, but I, I feel WellView has been, um, I mean, accuracy with any device is gonna be hard to prove, but the precision isn't.
It's, it's, it's just more like Yeah. A little, a little. It's still good. I think it's so like if someone has, it still can be used Sure. Uh, to do that, but I just like the other one having tested so many of them. Yeah. Um, that's specifically for someone who's looking for this 'cause then say like an aura ring, a Fitbit.
Yeah. A whoop, et cetera. Yeah. If someone's not using A-C-P-A-P, I think those are appropriate and fine, that you don't need to go to, like pulse ox land, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and those can be used to track at a, you know, relative manner.
Sure. Well said. Okay. I know we covered a lot of things and we do shift over with every guest we have to hearing and learning some of your personal ways that you're managing your own sleep.
But before we do that, any kind of closing thoughts on this big topic of sleep apnea and sleep optimization?
Yeah, I think if you find yourself like either drinking coffee or having to convince yourself it's not that bad, you should like, you know, kind of take it more seriously. Just saying and just being able to like really like, not accept like a regular poor night.
Assume like, okay, that's it. Just kind of keep pushing, you know? Yeah. Uh, day grind. Night grind. No, no, no. Um, because it's something I'm gonna throw men under the bus, I'm just gonna do it. Um, 'cause you know, like, um, I'm like really into analytics and stuff. That's, anyway. But, um. We'll, we'll track like men versus women and like Then also the other data point we gather is like when they were diagnosed with sleep apnea.
Yeah. Guess who immediately reaches out for help? I'm not surprised. It's women, men are like, yeah, it's been going on like 25 years. Yes, and I'm like. Well, glad you're here now. Yeah, exactly.
So wild. Oh gosh. I know. And that's so true. It's so much of this is about this kind of commitment taking action, and I also like that you're likely, hopefully inspiring people to realize that it doesn't have to look just one way.
That there are a lot of different ways we can approach this and I mean, so many of the things that you're speaking to can. Improve their overall quality of life by day by night, you know, so many aspects and trickle into so many areas of health. So it's just such a big deal. And one of the things that I was thinking of as you were sharing all this is something that I often say with clients is, you know, how you are by day gets mirrored in the nights.
And so we'll see that, you know, just even aside from sleep apnea aside. Someone's stress case and really, you know, dealing with a lot during certain periods of their life. We often see that get mirrored in the evenings of how they're breathing, of their heart rate, of their HRV, of their respiratory rate, body temperature, wake up, you know, the quality of their sleep, et cetera.
And yet the magic can be as we address how things are going by day and some of the really important pieces that you spoke to. We can imagine that over time with commitment, that we can start and often as you shared, like quickly for some people, we can start to get more relief. And that's just such a beautiful approach.
So for everyone that we do bring on, we do ask, uh, four questions. Excited to learn from yourself, you know, since you've spent a lot of time thinking about these topics. So our first question is, what does your nightly sleep routine look like right now?
So typically when, like around sunset, we'll make sure like all, all screens off at sunset.
I know, like that makes me sound so Amish. I love it. Nope, same. That's fine. I was in Pennsylvania for a long time, so I am basically, I grew up in Main,
so I feel you.
Yeah. So all screens off at Sunset. Then like even before then, uh, we'll spend like, uh, me and my wife and then, yeah, the whole, we'll bring all the dogs out, all three of them.
Uh, and just like spend time outside grounding as like the sun setting, uh, just. Well, I guess like we can't really relax if you have a puppy. 'cause like she's in the phase of like, how much can I bite right now? Yes. So that's, that's fun. Um, and, and just having that time where we're like, okay, kind of like, uh, relax, unwind, uh, get reconnected.
Like, you know, the solar signal to the, to the earth. I sound like such a hippie and love it.
And just like, start to calm things down. Like close the loop on certain things, like whether, uh, we're talking about things from, uh, client work that day or like things around the house or, um, did you defrost the thing for tomorrow?
You know? Yes. Those really essential things. 'cause no one likes to wake up at like 10:00 PM like, oh my god. Yes. So just, just being able to kind of batten down the hatches there. Um, and then from there, um, 'cause usually it look, we'll let it get pretty dark. Um, 'cause like we kind of live out in the middle of nowhere, like full moon and like full moon in the middle of nowhere.
You can go outside at night and like legit read a book by Moonlight. Like that's how it was last night. So before that happens, uh, yeah, go inside and then, uh, do some more things to kind of tie things up and then, uh, shower, then, uh, make sure the cats are fed because those will get you Totally. They will let you know.
Yeah. And
then usually around bed, like right now around bed, like 8 45, 9, somewhere in there. That's typical. Really exciting.
I love it. No, beautiful. And pointing to some of the things that often really do move the needle for people with their sleep are these routines that so many people don't want to stick with or commit to or have the discipline to see to it routinely.
But I think you're exemplifying that we can bring this in and it can really support our sleep so that you're not having to struggle with sleep. Beautiful. Okay, so you fall asleep and then the next morning, what does your morning sleep routine quote unquote, look like? With the idea that how we start our day could impact our sleep,
I mean, typically the, well either cats, dogs, or sun coming through.
The windows. Why am I struggling with the word to represent these Opa, those giant things. Yeah. Let that wake us up. Uh, so there's not like a, like a set time in which we get up, um, just kind of when that, I mean, it's before sunrise. Yeah. Um, and then at that, I mean, it's kind of the exact same boring thing, like outside with the dogs.
Uh, sometimes Bob the cat will join. That's, that's an additional variable. Yeah. And then, I mean, just out there grounding sunrise and then kind of going in and out, uh, to like cook breakfast. 'cause usually like, we'll, we start our day, like typically like working maybe like eight 30 ish. So we'll eat breakfast before then.
Um, and you know, cook that inside and then, you know, still, and then bring that back outside and then eat outside in our yard and. That's pretty much it. Nice. Simple. So sunrise grounding again. Protein breakfast had, what did we have steak this morning. That was, I mean, Daisy Reallymy would have liked that she's in her like little whining phase for everything.
That's the, that's the puppy in question in case anyone's wondering. Yes.
Got your hands full. Love it. Perfect. Okay. And then what might we see on your nightstand or in your environment?
So, um, there's not a nightstand in, so with, so with actually where we, so, um, Mollie, my wife, she'll sleep upstairs with the two, two of the dogs and then like all three of the cats we'll see about there.
Oh wow. Because the, like, so we had this match or we still have the mattress and then something happened with the slats and it's like this really soft thing. So soft mattresses. The heavier you are, the more you'll appreciate soft mattresses stink and like, uh, we're gonna get a new one. I swear everyone and I just like always will wake if I sleep up there, I'll just like wake up and just feel like bent outta shape.
Yeah. So I'll sleep downstairs with um, other dog. So I guess Thor would be the nightstand accessory there. Uh, but not really much. I think there, I think up. So there maybe it's books on the nightstand. I think that's what's up there. Fancy.
No, we've seen that theme with so many of the people that are, their sleep is working that often.
It's quite minimal as what's going on in their nightstand. So love that. And then the last question would be, so far to date, what would you say has made the biggest change to your sleep game? Or said another way? Maybe biggest aha moment in managing your sleep.
Biggest aha. Moment of all time. I thought of this before and I had one, but now I'm having another.
Oh, okay. And the first time when I read it on the, the sheet, yes. I was like, I read it as a HA American Heart Association. I was like, what? You work cardiovascular podcast? Yeah, yeah.
Cardiovascular podcast. I, I mean, I really like what you said earlier, it was like what you do in your day mirrors because like the more like you're outside getting good, like light and all this stuff.
So like, for those who don't know, 'cause we talked before this, um, like last night I slept awful. It was like dogs barking. I think there's a coyote outside all this stuff. And like it was just, yeah. Crazy. Um, and, you know, that's just the coverup. 'cause uh, most people don't know this, but Mollie will actually, uh, call people the, the guests on the show at like 2:00 AM to wake them up, just to be in a good state of empathy.
Little hazing process, little, little hazing
process. It's kind of top secret, but it, it works. Uh, but then like today I'm like, okay, well, like, I wanna make sure I get like, good sleep tonight. Yeah. Um, and like, you know, being outside more, yes. More direct online, things of that nature. Uh, more of a chill day, so I don't like Yeah.
You know, do all that. So I. I think really appreciating that more of like sleep is just not like a nighttime thing. It's really just like everything you do will impact it. Yeah. Um, and being able to adjust accordingly.
I love that and I so appreciate you sharing about those nights. 'cause we all have those I was sharing with my newsletter, so I've been sending out this, you know, weekly newsletter for like six years or so.
So some people, you know, I've been sharing along the way of kind of my journey with sleep optimization and what have you. And I was sharing that this past year really. I went through this whole period of burnout, of overworking over traveling all the things. And it was ended up being one of the biggest blessings because it actually had me have to like step back, reevaluate.
Bring in more of the breath work, you know, really manage nervous system and shift a lot of how I was managing my workload and stress load and all the things. I know this is separate from what you shared 'cause you're dealing with actual, you know, there's noises and whatever and people and puppies and all of that.
But I think it's important for people to realize like, we're not necessarily like done and then somehow you have like perfect sleep every single night. I think it's helpful for us to understand that there's gonna be ebbs and flows and for me that's why it's so helpful to have that sort of kind of ethos of it being a skillset or being something that we continue to look at and support.
And even when we might have been killing it for so long, we're doing great. Then something happens. You expand the aperture of what you're up to, you're taking on more responsibilities, you lose a loved one, something happens, you know, and then it just allows you this new way of managing. Health and wellbeing ongoingly.
And so I feel like it's really helpful to share that when we're dealing with some of those things. And then how we deal with it the next day, like you said, because I think that's just as important. And so few people realize some of those things that you can do, they might not connect that. Oh yeah.
Getting outside, grounding sunlight, being mindful of how you're managing your stress load, what have you throughout the day is gonna support the evening. So I love all that. So. Beautiful. Anything else that we missed about your kind of biggest takeaways or aha moments or things with sleep?
Move to Florida is a good sleep pack. Good. I would recommend. That's good. Yes. Lower latitude locations. Yeah.
Lower latitudes. No snow. There'll be hurricanes. True. Um, but they only, they last way shorter than winter. Yes.
So well said. Okay. And how can people follow you, learn from you, work with you, all the things.
Yeah. So, uh, different layers and things of that nature here.
So the easiest one, 'cause, uh, talk a lot about sleep apnea a lot. Yeah. Um, that's probably the biggest focus. So whether it's like our YouTube channel or just like learn different things there, uh, that's a great place to have different like, oddly specific topics like what did I do? What was the one I did recently?
Was it on? Um, like I talked about, like, I. We talk about the nutrition one. Oh, there's like a sugar one. There's a brain fog one there. There's all these various topics you can check out that out there. Uh, for people out in the audience who maybe want, 'cause we have like two options. Well I guess now we have three.
I introduced the third one, so there's two. Beautiful. Yeah, we went through, we went through one. It was, you know, was, okay. Uh, so dormer one is, uh, for people who just want like, you know, we got like a freebie of where like, you know, I'll take the points we talked about here and then kind of dive a little bit deeper on them, different aspects.
So if there's anything you're curious, I'll know what you're curious about and put it in there and, you know, have some things in there we can make that super actionable. Uh, and we'll do the link there. Where we gonna say that as OCH? So like, ouch. Not, no, it's not. Ouch. It's ouch without a U. But OCH stands for my company's name Optimal Health, but OCH now.
As now, uh, com slash uh, we'll do sleep is a skill one to represent one. So that's the, uh, freebie there. Little PDF summary. We'll get you there. So then. Option number two is for people who have sleep apnea. We have a video course called the Sleep Apnea Reset Protocol. Pretty sure that's the name.
Definitely. Sure. That's the name. Yeah. And kind of like we talked about earlier, where it's like, if you have this, do that, like all those different variations, that's what the video course walks you through. So you can, uh, just, I take you through like a series of tests of understanding like, hey, this is a, a good protocol for me.
So then at the end of that, you have something that is tailored towards your needs, really effective, really time effective. And, uh, you know, you get a little workbook that you know you have there. So at the end you're, you're just done with it.
Yes. Then you
have your thing. And then it also includes, uh, like an exercise video library so you know how to do the things and can, you know, obviously enjoy watching videos of me wiggling my tongue around.
That's kind of the, the main value thing there.
Um, love it. But, uh, to get that. And then, uh, for reviewers here, we give you a little discount that's already applied, so you don't need to remember a coupon code. I, I thought of that. Uh, so that'll be at ach now. Dot com slash sleep is a skill two, so different than the previous one, but love it.
ACH now.com/sleep is a skill two. Those would be the. All the things there. That's
beautiful. Well, thank you so much and that, you know, there's so many resources and things that you've put out over the years, so highly encourage people to take action, choose your adventure, and then really get in on this conversation because you've been in on the cutting edge on this.
For years and yours, how I came across you was in the world of circadian health optimization. Before a lot of people were discussing this, you were not only living it, but teaching it. And now really threading in some of these other components to support people with a huge sleep disorder that we're seeing so many people be diagnosed with.
And so many people, I'm sure that are listening that are undiagnosed and walking around with sleep apnea and just don't even realize it. So, you know, it's really, really important to have this level of education and understanding about something that we're doing every single night. A third of our lives are spent to sleep and yet so often we're kind of breezing past what could be available if we were to really transform this area.
So, so appreciate you taking the time and for your commitment and dedication and really just appreciate it.
Yep. Thanks for having me.
Thank you. You've been listening to The Sleep As A Skill Podcast, the top podcast for people who wanna take their sleep skills to the next level. Every Monday, I send out the Sleep Obsessions newsletter, which aims to be one of the most obsessive newsletters on the planet.
Fun Facts. I've never missed A Monday for over five years and counting, and it contains everything that you need to know in the fascinating world of sleep. Head on over to Sleep as a skill.com/newsletter to sign up.