The Sleep Is A Skill Podcast

218: Emma Cooksey, Patient Advocate, Project Sleep: The Hidden Face of Sleep Apnea…What We’re Getting Wrong

Episode Summary

Emma Cooksey is a writer, speaker, and patient advocate. She was diagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea at the age of 30, after more than a decade of unexplained health issues. In 2020, Emma launched a weekly podcast, “Sleep Apnea Stories” to break down stereotypes of sleep apnea while also raising awareness of symptoms and treatment options. In her current role as Sleep Apnea Program Manager, Emma runs Project Sleep’s Sleep Apnea Education and Awareness Program. Through this program, she develops and implements new awareness and educational initiatives, events, and activities to empower people with sleep apnea to seek diagnosis, support, and care.

Episode Notes

Emma Cooksey is a writer, speaker, and patient advocate. She was diagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea at the age of 30, after more than a decade of unexplained health issues. In 2020, Emma launched a weekly podcast, “Sleep Apnea Stories”  to break down stereotypes of sleep apnea while also raising awareness of symptoms and treatment options.

In her current role as Sleep Apnea Program Manager, Emma runs Project Sleep’s Sleep Apnea Education and Awareness Program. Through this program, she develops and implements new awareness and educational initiatives, events, and activities to empower people with sleep apnea to seek diagnosis, support, and care.

 

SHOWNOTES:

😴  Why did a terrifying moment behind the wheel became a wake-up call that changed Emma Cooksey’s life forever?

😴  How did this once-exhausted suburban mom become one of sleep apnea’s most powerful advocates?

😴  What’s the real face of sleep apnea, and why is it not what you think?

😴  Can a smartwatch really detect signs of sleep apnea?

😴  What breakthrough treatments are emerging are sleep apnea pills, implants, and stimulators the future?

😴  Why CPAP therapy isn’t the only option anymore and what Emma is using instead

😴  What’s the “Let’s Face It” campaign—and how can you be part of this movement?

😴  Could your teen’s “laziness” or fatigue be a sign of undiagnosed sleep apnea?

😴  How perimenopause impacted Emma’s sleep and what changes helped her take control

😴  Why just “losing weight” is an oversimplified—and harmful—response to sleep apnea

😴 Is it time we made sleep apnea screening as routine as a blood pressure check?

😴  What’s Emma’s biggest “aha” moment after 16 years of living with sleep apnea?

😴  And so much more!

 

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GUEST LINKS:

Website: https://project-sleep.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/project_sleep/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-cooksey-sleep-apnea/


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The information contained in this podcast, our website, newsletter, and the resources available for download are not intended to be medical or health advice and shall not be understood or construed as such. The information contained on these platforms is not a substitute for medical or health advice from a professional who is aware of the facts and circumstances of your individual situation.

Episode Transcription

 Welcome to the Sleep As a Skill podcast. My name is Mollie Eastman. I am the founder of Sleep as A Skill, a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability, and behavioral change. As an ex sleep sufferer turned sleep course creator, I am on a mission to transform the way the world. Thinks about sleep.

Each week I'll be interviewing world-class experts, ranging from researchers, doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Ultimately, I believe that living a circadian aligned lifestyle is going to be one of the biggest trends in wellness, and I'm committed to keeping you up to date on all the things that you can do today.

To transform your circadian health and by extension, allowing you to sleep and live better than ever before.

Welcome back to the Sleep Is Skill podcast. Today's episode is a special one, and not just because we're diving deep into the world of sleep apnea, although you know I love that, but because we are joined by a returning guest who I deeply admire and respect, and she's just an awesome human being and friend Emma Cooksey is back now, we rarely bring guests on twice, but Emma is one of those rare voices and the sleeps.

Space who is not just talking about change. She is the change from being misdiagnosed for over a decade and finally getting answers after a near death experience at the Wheel to launching the Sleep Apnea Stories podcast and heading up the Sleep Apnea Education and Awareness program at Project Sleep, Emma has truly transformed personal adversity into powerful advocacy.

In this conversation, we get real about what's changing in the world of sleep apnea from Apple watches, detecting signs of sleep disorder, breathing to brand new treatments on the horizon, including pills, implants, and devices that sound like they're out of a sci-fi movie. We also dive into Emma's newest initiative, the Let's Face It campaign.

An awareness movement meant to. Smash stereotypes, put real faces to this invisible condition and empower millions who are still undiagnosed. If you've ever felt confused about what sleep apnea really looks like, hint, it's not just older men who snore or if you're supporting someone who's struggling to find answers, this episode is a must listen, so we're gonna get right into it.

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Pleasantly surprised by the results. And welcome to the Sleep is a Skill podcast. We don't have many guests that come onto this podcast that come on twice, and yet right now, today we have a two time, a second returning guest, Emma Cooksie. Emma, thank you so much for taking the time to be here. 

Thank you so much for having me, Molly.

I'm so excited. And that's kind of like quite a lot of pressure though. Oh, 

it really sets you up to do whatever you want because it's such a rarity that we have people come on twice. How, you know, you've got some fantastic things to share and I know we could only scratch the surface on the last one, and you have some new.

Developments and groups that you're working with and all kinds of things to share. So we're gonna jump in. Before we do that, if you wanna just a quick little reintroduction to people listening. How did you become, as I've just, I'm gonna anoint you right now, the queen of sleep apnea. 

Wow. I don't know that I can live out to that maybe.

Lot of pressure. Yeah. And so for any that doesn't. Didn't listen to our first conversation. Um, I was kinda sharing all about my journey with sleep apnea. Um, I went undiagnosed for 10 years. Um, and that's really what drives my work now as a patient advocate, I just like, it took me so long to get this diagnosis as a young woman and I just don't see a lot of.

I think we're starting to raise awareness about sleep and the importance of sleep, but we just aren't quite there in terms of everybody, like the public and primary care physicians really understanding, you know, that sleep apnea can affect people of all sizes, shapes, genders, um, background. So, um, really what happened with me was I was a young mom.

I was. Or not young for a mother. Actually, I was a new mom at the age of 30. Yeah. Um, which now feels really young, but Yes. Um, and really how I got this diagnosis was I fell asleep at the wheel. So I've been having a lot of. You know, sleepy while driving incidents, but that was the first time I really fell asleep and I narrowly avoided an accident.

And so that was really for me, the impetus I needed to get a sleep study. So I went and had that test and I hadn't heard of sleep apnea and they, you know, that's what they said the diagnosis was. And they, you know, gave me CPAP and like a lot of people. I know that you've talked to so many people, Molly, in your work, who start CPAP and don't have a lot of support and they have a lot of problems.

Yeah. And it can be really isolating. Yeah. Um, so I definitely felt alone and, um, I, I decided to start a podcast, um, which at the time I wasn't, you know, people all kind of say to me, were you in journalism or, and I'm like, no, I am a suburban mom that just like has sleep apnea and I just didn't see. A lot of community around it.

Yeah. Like I didn't know other people with sleep apnea and I didn't know anything about other treatment options and I knew that some were being developed. And so I got a lot of people on my podcast sleep apnea stories, which I started in 2020, just to explain about all the different treatment options, um, and a lot of people sharing their own.

Stories, obviously with it being called sleep apnea stories, I think that there's a lot of power in sharing your story and hearing other people's right and just their experiences. People are so different and the way that they deal with sleep apnea is so different. Um, that I think that was really the goal behind that.

And over the four years I did my podcast and I. Really just started identifying a lot of problems, which were bigger than just one woman with the podcast. Yes. That's when I joined forces with Project Sleep, who I'm now working with, which is really exciting. So Project Sleep is a small nonprofit. Um, and really with the goal of raising awareness about sleep, health, sleep equity, and sleep disorders.

Hmm. So my part of that is the sleep apnea part. So now I'm working on education programs and also awareness. So, 

wow. 

Kind of my dream job, honestly. 

Exactly. Look at you creating your dream job and out of certainly a dark period in in your life, and being willing to share that and the way that you kind of stepped forward, advocated for yourself, got the answers you needed and continued to.

I'm excited to hear your new evolution of how you're managing your sleep apnea. I mean, how you bring people along for the ride, because it's not just a static thing. It keeps changing as our hormones change as we age, it's all this. Different, you know, things come about. So I so appreciate you kind of opening up your life for this.

And at the same time, bringing so many experts and being such an established expert yourself after all of this really became your own journalist. So fantastic job. And now with Project Sleep, which is really paving the way for such real change on the ground. So maybe we can talk a little bit more about project sleep.

And so if people are kind of new to it, like. What could this do for them, whether for the listener or for them to have as a resource to refer if they're speaking with other people or their partners or their loved ones. What does that look like? 

Yeah, that'd be great. So I am first came across Project Sleep because I read a wonderful book called Wide Awake.

Wide Awake and Dreaming. Yes. By Julia Flagger, which is a memoir she wrote about having narcolepsy. Um, and I know a lot of people. If they don't know much about sleep apnea, they definitely don't know a lot about narcolepsy because I just don't feel like we really, um, you know, aside from sleep specialists, like there isn't a lot of awareness about that condition out there.

And so that was just a really inspiring book. Um, it shared all about her own journey and I just felt a, a sort of, um, kinship with her because we both studied law at university and that was when we were really coming to terms with our own symptoms for our different sleep disorders. Hmm. Um. And so the kind of things that I saw Project Sleep doing that I was just really excited about, were creating, um, some resources for that narcolepsy community specifically.

Um, and. They have a program called, um, narcolepsy Nerd Alert. Amazing. Love it. I just think is such a great name. And I love that they're kind of meeting people where they are. So it's really resources for anybody living with narcolepsy, but also their loved ones and even doctors. Um, and they're in the format of like videos, but also.

You know, sort of on YouTube and also podcasts and social media and stuff. And also, um, downloadable PDF toolkits. So I just think there's, there's lots of people learn in such different ways and they want the information these days in such different ways that I love the way that they. We're focusing on the information people needed to live better lives living with that sleep disorder.

So I really wanted to do something similar for sleep apnea. That's really where that came from. But they're also doing some really amazing, so they have a Hollywood program. Um, there's a Hollywood initiative they're doing with the Norman Lear Center, um, in la and I'm not sure if I told you about this.

Before Molly, but it's really exciting. They're working with, um, writers' rooms who are developing storylines for TV shows. So a lot of what we work on is trying to kind of change perceptions about who has like different sleep disorders and what they actually look like, because oftentimes the portrayals in movie and TV don't really match people's lived experience.

Yes. Especially when it comes to sleep apnea, like I think it's getting slowly better, but for a long time you would either just never see like anybody with sleep apnea or it would be like. You know, there's nothing wrong with like, you know, very old people having sleep apnea, but you would never see like young, vibrant people or you know, people who seem to be like living their lives well, who just happen to have sleep apnea and we're treating it.

Mm-hmm. So it just always seemed to be people in hospital or, you know, very ill people kind of thing. Yes. So, yeah, we're just working on. Any way that we can to kind of change perceptions. Mm. And so a big part of, um, so I just started, um, with Project Sleep last. I was on the board of directors before that, but I started last July actually putting out information and stuff.

So I've been working on my Sleep apnea squad program. 

Wow. Where 

people can go to project sleep.com and find it. And there's, um, YouTube lives where we've done, it's been really important to still have, um, people living with sleep apnea represented in their stories. Um, but we also have like clinicians and researchers and different experts.

About sleep apnea, kind of sharing about the different topics. So we've got lots of information there for people. If you're, if you're not sure of all the different signs and symptoms of sleep apnea, we have like lots of resources about that. Um, we did one on testing 'cause I know like you've definitely covered a lot with your work about how much easier it's getting to test for sleep apnea.

So talking about like home testing and telehealth and how people can Yeah. Actually get the test. Yes. And yeah, and like. All the different treatment options, you know? So just so that people are less confused, I think oftentimes people aren't aware that there are other treatment options other than CPAP or how to access them.

So we've just been working on that. 

Yes, absolutely. And I believe there's a hotline as well for people. Mm-hmm. Is that, yeah. 

So we have the sleep health lane and yeah. Is, yeah, we can give you all the details so that people can, um, access it, but yeah, you can, you can call. It's really funny because when we were developing the helpline, we talked a little bit about do people call anymore, but people do, but there's also like a web, there's other ways to do it.

Like, you know, people can email and everything. Um, and so that's just really, it's navigational support, so we're not offering medical advice. Sure. But 

yeah. 

Trying to deal with, um, you know, actual sleep disorders or, or really any issue with your sleep. Yeah. Like, it's really difficult to find, you know, whether it's CBTI professionals mm-hmm.

Or the, the right kind of, um, doctor, whether it's a sleep specialist, a pulmonologist, or a neurologist. Yeah. So just trying to help people get to the right. Um, resources in their own communities is, is what we're trying to do with the sleep helpline. But yeah, it's going really well and I think it's quite, um, I get to hear some of the stories of the people calling in that go from calling in just with some questions right through to getting a diagnosis with the sleep disorder or, you know, just getting put in touch with resources that help them with their sleep.

So, yeah, it's going. So that's a, a really great. I, I don't do anything to do with the helpline, but I, okay. Everything I hear about is great, so people should definitely call if, if they have any issues or any questions we have like a wealth of resources we can share. 

Oh, that's so great. I mean, there's so much of this is that too.

It's just this confusion on. Well, where do I go and who do I go to? And there's a missing of enough hands to support people and knowledgeable hands and and eyeballs to be on your case. And I hear you. It's not medical advice, but even just that directional support or resources, suggestions, all of that.

Okay. So I know you mentioned some new things to share in the world of study apnea, so maybe that could be a good time to kind of dive into that. 

Yeah. So I mean, you've probably covered a lot of different things on your podcast, but I know, um, there was a lot of publicity around, um, apple watches and Samsung watches.

Yeah. 

We haven't done enough on that, so, yeah. 

Yeah. So that, those, those came out last year and nope. And have FDA approval for now. It's not a diagnostic test, right? So it's really important for people to know that. But what they do is if, if you, over I think 30 days, it tracks, it's able to track some of the signs that you might have sleep apnea, and it sends a notification to the user at like the 30 day mark saying, we've noticed some signs of sleep apnea.

Consult your doctor. That alone, 

right? Changing. Yeah. So 

at least kind of puts it on people's radar that there might be something happening. And so it's really important if people listening, get that notification from their watch. Like, go ahead and follow up. Like either with your own doctor or, there are a ton of different telehealth options now, um, where they can, you know, do a telehealth appointment from your home.

Send you a test. And do another telehealth appointment to talk about afterwards. So you don't actually even necessarily need to see a, you know, a doctor. You don't have to go and spend the night in a sleep lab often. Um, some people do, 

right? Yes. I'm 

kind of like, uh, but yeah, but I, so I think like. My thing is we don't often, um, talk enough about how, how prevalent, um, obstructive sleep apnea is, but they reckon, I mean, it's about an estimated 20% of adults in America, which is 54 million people.

And out of those people. We think it's about 80% that are undiagnosed. So whatever we can do to get more people to go see their doctor or to look at testing some other way, like, yeah. They really just have to, yeah, I just really want everybody, I, I, I remember still how it felt to have untreated sleep apnea and my quality of life was so much lower and I just really had a tough time showing up for my family, working all the things.

So I just really want everybody listening to if they're, they're suspecting that they have sleep apnea. They may be wake up with morning headache. Or have brain fog. They sleep the right number of hours, but they're not getting that quality sleep and they're not feeling refreshed in the morning. Then really consider if this might be something that you're dealing with.

Yes, and using yourself as an example, I mean, that was at like 30 years old and presumably we're still able to recover better and you know, and yet there's this compounding effect that if you hadn't caught that, if there hadn't been those dramatic moments for you, really like a life or death. Situation at hand, then who knows what would've occurred as years go on and these things just keep building.

Yeah. So I so appreciate you sharing one, the stats on just how big of a problem this is, and two, helping us understand that there are just more and more ways that we can start to catch this. I mean, imagine if you would've been wearing the watch back then, and 

I know I do often think about that. Imagine if I've been wearing this.

Watch in my early twenties when I had these symptoms and I had no idea. I like one of, one of the things that I think, I mean, primary care physicians have a lot on their plate. Right? No doubt. Yeah. And they just don't get trained enough in sleep. So it's not that, you know, they're doing a bad job. We just need to.

People are trained so that they actually know the information. But like, you know, I was going to doctors in my early twenties saying like, with all of the classic symptoms almost, you know, like saying I really don't feel refreshed in the morning. I have a morning headache every day. And so that's just like, you're not getting enough oxygen to your brain.

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Head on over to eight. Sleep and use the code. Sleep is a skill, all one word at checkout for a discount. So in this whole world of sleep apnea, between the time when we spoke to you last and now, are there additional things that you've seen that you're excited about and or, I know another piece was around kind of shedding light on women and sleep apnea.

Either one of those. Yeah, let me know. 

I mean, these are my favorite subjects, Molly. 

Okay, great. Great. So whatever one you like, we can tackle first. 

So I think some of the new things coming that are exciting or just like newer treatment options, like I've always said right from the beginning, like we just need the most amount of treatment options just because.

People are so different. The, the way that they're dealing with sleep apnea is so different. Some people are extremely sleepy, some people aren't. Um, you know, some people do really well with cpap, some people don't. Yeah. So I think like, um, going forward, I just want to see every single person treated. And so in order to do that, I think we need a lot more options for people.

So, um. Yeah, like one of the things coming is newer medications. Hmm. So I think. I think last time we spoke was before the, um, Zet Bound GLP one study. The sermon OSA study came out. 

Definitely. 

Yeah. So I don't know if your listeners are familiar, like you've probably talked about that, but essentially they took people, um.

It's important to say that they had obstructive sleep apnea and obesity, so it was definitely peak people in bigger bodies that that was an element of their sleep apnea. So I think one of the difficult parts is people have sleep apnea for different reasons. Yes. So I had sleep apnea. When I was much smaller.

Right, right. And it's definitely worsened as I've gained weight through perimenopause, but it's definitely not the only factor for me. Exactly. Yeah. So, so for some people losing weight can actually eradicate their sleep apnea and make it completely. Better and they'll test again and yeah. And they don't have it anymore, but for other people they're still gonna need some treatment.

So just to kind of be clear about that. But that was a really interesting study just 'cause they showed, um, a significant drop in what we call the a HI. Yes. So the Apnea hypopnea index. Mm-hmm. Um, so the number of times they stopped breathing, each shower went down significantly in the group that were taking, um, that medication.

So I think we'll see, I mean. Um, as with all new drugs, like they're doing longer studies over what happens, you know, 2, 3, 4, 5 years, you know, after people start taking the medications and we'll see what the longer term benefits look like. But for now, I mean, I certainly know a couple of people in the sleep apnea community, um, who are doing well with that treatment.

So, you know, it's just one of those things. It's like. Let's have all the options. Right. So, and hopefully that's gonna work for a lot of people. So the other thing is there's a company called Aped who are developing, uh, uh, sleep apnea pill. Have you heard of this? 

I have heard of this, but I'm very curious your take.

Yeah. So they're in phase three trials, so we should have some results. Hmm. Them coming in the summer, which is exciting Okay. To really hear like how that's going. So what they're trying to do is address the neuromuscular cause, um, of upper airway collapse. And they're also looking at, um, improving oxygenation.

Mm. So one 

of the things that might be a little bit too nerdy, um, but oftentimes when we talk about sleep apnea, whether it's mild, moderate, or severe, we're talking about. This a HI number? Yes. Right. So the number of events that's happening every hour, but what they've looked at with their study is a thing called Hypoxic Burden.

Mm. You can just cut this out if it's too much. No, this 

is, I love it. Keep going, please. 

So, hypoxic burden is slightly different. So they're looking at people who might have the same number of, um, pauses in breathing. Per hour. So maybe people have like 15, there's two people, they both have 15 events where they stop breathing per hour.

But what they're looking at is one person having a much deeper dip in oxygen and the other person not having as much of a dip in oxygen. Mm. And so they're looking at how can we reduce the amount that oxygen dips and keep more oxygen going to the brain? So it's pretty interesting. 

That is very interesting.

Yeah. What type of person do we think that this could be for? As far as, is it all cases of sleep apnea? Is it a mild, moderate, severe? Did you mention that? I might've missed that part. 

So I think, well, we, we, I mean, the answer right now is we don't know until, until we see the final results. Right. So it's not gonna be on the market for a while.

Whether it's that it could help somebody with, I mean, I guess I just don't know is the answer. We don't know. 

Okay. We'll find out. Yeah. 

But whether it's, you know, that this pill alone would treat somebody sleep apnea, or whether it's combining this with another.

Treatment option. Like a mandibular advancement device Sure. Or something else. Um, yeah, it's just gonna be another option we have, which is great. And then the other thing is hypoglossal nerve stimulator. So we're familiar with the Inspire hypoglossal nerve stimulator. Mm-hmm. Right. So there's another couple that use a similar technology, but they're kind of in the pipeline.

Mm. So there's the Genio. Have you seen this? 

Mm, I have seen this, but I do not know much more beyond like the headlines. 

Yeah. So in the uk, they're now. Doing this implant, and they're, they're waiting for FDA approval here in the US to start doing it. And it's kind of similar, like, so the hypoglossal nerve simulator, the way that it works is they isolate the, um, nerves that move the tongue out of the airway.

They have to do a thing called drug induced sleep endoscopy first to decide whether people are a good candidate and they, if the person is. Largely having this issue because of their tongue blocking their airway, they can move the tongue forward and out of the airway. 

Mm. So that's kind of 

the. Basics of how hypo nerve stimulators work.

Um, and so this genio one is kind of interesting. They don't have an implant. So the inspire one, there's, there's an implant in, um, your chest kind of looking like a pacemaker. The genio one, the has something that fits under your chin. So that's similar technology, but like yeah. Okay. I'm not sure that I really crushed it on explaining that. 

No, I think that was great. And, and that's our whole point too, is like the intrigue and interest and then if people wanna, you know, explore more.

Yeah, learn more. Go for it. Exactly. Fantastic. Okay, so you're giving us kind of a primer on a number of things. Is there anything else that you're excited about? Are those some of the top ones? 

Well, the main thing I'm excited about is my sleep apnea. Let's face it. Campaign. Let's face it. 

Okay. Bring us in.

Which launches 

soon? Yes. So, um, we've never really done an awareness campaign where we try to activate the community of people living with sleep apnea. So whether that means having people share about their own experiences on social media or being involved in our campaign in another way, like, so we're, we're launching it this month and essentially, uh, we called it.

Sleep apnea, let's face it because. Just like we talked about at the beginning, there's so many people going undiagnosed. Yeah. Who just don't think they look like somebody who would have sleep apnea. Exactly. Yeah. It's such a problem. So by putting a face on it, we're hoping to show, like we're gonna be sharing real stories and the real faces of people with sleep apnea, which helps us just get that message across that.

It really doesn't matter what you look like. Yes. If you're having these signs and symptoms, you need to go and get tested. And the other part that we really need to face is that it is a serious medical condition. 

Yes, exactly. I know I had, um, uh, one reel that I'd made a while back. It just got some traction.

And so there, there's people commenting and from furthest recesses of the internet, who are these people? I don't know. But so many people would come out with just these absolute statements saying, well, you only, yes. Just need to lose weight. So that's it. Blah, blah. And thank you. 'cause actually you were one of the people that came out and was like, let me explain a few things.

Yeah. You know, it's just, it's unfit. Yeah. It's concerning that this has been the narrative and so I'm so grateful that you and groups like it, um, like Project Sleep and Beyond are starting to help dismantle, you know, this. Misnomer. So, okay, so more about this initiative. Yeah. Tell us additional details. 

So I gathered together myself and five other people living with sleep apnea for.

Um, uh, photo shoot and we recorded a bunch of videos just with people sharing their stories. Um, so that was really amazing. It was so great to bring everyone together and people came from all different states and it was just really important to me to have. Such a wide representation of people. So I had Edgar, who, um, is a Venezuelan American who, um, shared all about his experience of being a really sleepy teenager.

Hmm. And not really, you know, he didn't get diagnosed until his mid twenties. And, you know, looking back a lot of his falling asleep, you know, he talked about like. Feeling sleepy at school, getting home, sleeping, doing his homework, sleeping again, and then going back to school. So it's just like a lot of people are dealing with that, and I think we oftentimes chalk that up to teenagers being lazy or, um, you know, just that they're having like their growing pains and, and it's normal, but it's really not normal.

Yeah. So, yeah, and, and so it was interesting to me like there was. Three people. So Edgar and also Chris Sleep. Dr. Chris? 

Yes. Oh, great. 

He was there too, which was great. Um, and also Chris and Cassio came from Boston, so the three of them talked a bit about how they were very sleepy as teenagers, but they didn't know anything about.

Sleep apnea. So it really wasn't until, I mean, with Chris, it wasn't until he was a medical student that he learned about sleep apnea, um, to actually be able to identify it in himself, you know? Wow. So, and Kristen's story didn't take that. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. And Kristen went 15 years to diagnosis. So I think like her sharing her story, she actually has a really funny story about how.

Her, her husband, um, he's called Mike. Yeah. Used to, he would just wake up early in the morning, but because Kristen had this undiagnosed sleep apnea, she was always tired and she wouldn't wake up with him to do anything in the early morning, and so they called it like Mike's other life. Yeah. Where he was just kind of like going, you know, all Saturday morning he was just like doing all these things and Kristen was still sleeping.

And so once she got her diagnosis and started, she did really well on CPAP therapy and you know, it's like now she's able to hang out with Mike in the morning as well. So. Nice. So I think, yeah, all of the people that took part, I think there was just a lot of emphasis on. You know, getting treated so that you can live your life better now.

I think oftentimes people kind of, you know, we talk about like there are some serious long-term consequences of sleep apnea, but I think oftentimes people don't really want to think about that. Right. But I, I feel like the message that you could be getting more out of your life now Yes. And be there for, for short term.

Exactly. Your relationship, your friends, your family, like, it's just definitely worth doing. Yes. So, yeah, we, and, and the other, another person we had was Jeff, um, Jeff Eid, who came from Mississippi. Okay. Who is a sleep tech. Mm-hmm. But also has, um, obstructive sleep apnea, but also central sleep apnea. So he spoke a little bit about that and he actually lost.

His dad, um, at the age of 54 to untreated sleep apnea. So his dad was diagnosed and was on CPAP and one afternoon sat in his chair to take a nap without his CPAP and never woke up. Oh, wow. So that's really driven. Jeff's, you know, like now his work is being a sleep tech, testing other people for sleep apnea 

he's really passionate about it and just wants other people to take action, so, oh, 

thank God. We need that message out there. And then just the example of the fact that it doesn't have to be an arduous kind of upsetting diagnosis. It can just be like life changing in a positive way, and that's, yeah.

Right, and I mean, I see that all the time. You see that all the time. You see it in your own life. It's like, I mean, it's been such a rewarding thing to see, like it's almost, you know, I'm not trying to celebrate a disorder, but when people do get that diagnosis, yes, it can just be a clear pathway. Yes. To transformation.

I mean, you can just feel night and day, no pun intended 

different. I know for you like it mu it must show up so much, especially the people that you're working with. Whether it's like AA rings or Woo Yes. I don't know what's called exactly. I know. 

Nailed it. 

But like oftentimes, you know, if people are really struggling with their sleep quality, like I think sleep apnea is such a low hanging fruit thing to rule out.

Yes. You know? 

Absolutely. Exactly. I know. I am always saying like one of my. Kind of hills that I'll die on is the goal for the future. The same way all of us get tested for our blood pressure when we go into the doctor. There is no reason, especially as it keeps getting cheaper and more affordable and more easy to test at home, why we shouldn't all be testing at least once, if not multiple times throughout the course of our lives.

Yeah. Because as we know, again, dynamic and things will shift and change. So that is the future that we wanna see and that's. It's just absolutely available. I 

was just gonna say, things have definitely shifted and changed for me, and so when I started perimenopause yes. Like I, I know that you've talked about perimenopause on your show, but like I definitely gained some weight.

Yep. Just felt really different. Mm-hmm. And quickly I was like, oh my, like, so your CPAP, like for people that are on CPAP, um, and anyone that's not familiar is a mask you wear as you're sleeping and it. Pumps pressurize air into your airway to hold it open. Um, so I've been using that for, I mean, a long time.

Yes. Yeah. I think 16 years at this point when I, when I started having the issues, and so I just started struggling. Like I went to my doctor and I said like. I really feel like maybe my pressure needs to be increased to keep my airway open. And we did that, but then I just find the new pressure kind of uncomfortable.

Mm-hmm. So I, um, added a mandibular advancement device sometimes called an oral appliance. Yes. That holds your tongue and soft tissue out of your airway. And that just allows me to have lower pressure on my CPA, which I find more comfortable. Great. It doesn't work for everybody, but. For me that a combination has been really good.

Um, and I don't wanna preempt the HRT because you might ask me what's on my nightstand. 

Ah, you know it. Okay, great. Well then, we'll, we'll hop right in. So we had the opportunity to ask you how you're managing your own sleep when you came on the first time. And so I'm excited to hear any changes or doubling down on certain things that people need to really know.

But the first question is, what does your nightly sleep routine look like right now? 

Okay. I'm right expecting a lot of brownie points from you. So I definitely am in a routine of taking a bath most nights. Okay. And there's candles, um, and there's not a lot, there's definitely not overhead lights. Yeah.

There might be like a little Right. Um, that definitely does help me wind down and relax. And I did buy some bulbs, which are. Some light bulbs, which it was some sort of. One that you talked about back in the day. Yes. And And I think they just don't have the blue part. Okay. Or something. Yeah. 

Yep. Exactly. So, 

great.

So I don't know. I feel like maybe that's helping, that's what's in my bedroom and then I love it. I don't have the, I don't have the red light in my fridge because I'm not you, but that's okay. 

That is a, okay. We'll let that go. Those are 

the main things. And then as I mentioned before, I am using an oral appliance.

To hold my jaw slightly forward. And also using a CCP a P machine every night. That's my nighttime. Nighttime, okay. Routine. Okay, perfect. Okay. Trying to not be on my phone. That's really challenging. I know. That's a tricky 

one for all of us. I get it. I get it. But it sounds like you've got everything really dialed in and you've had some of these additional pieces, and I love that.

Speaking to this call out of kind of combination treatment and therapies so that it's not just like a one and done and that we can keep shifting and evolving as things change and as we change. 

I just saw, this is kind of like a, you know.

Beside the, the point. Yeah. But, um, I just saw you posted something about a headboard that purifies the air. 

Yes, exactly. Air tool up. Exactly. Oh my God. Zoom yes, that is from a company called Air Tulip.

Now, I will learn more when they come on the podcast, but I believe it's designed by an aerospace engineer. And the idea is that it cleanses the air a thousand times more effective than other air purifiers that they tested within one, you know, bedroom space. But, you know, we'll, really interesting. We'll double check those.

Those numbers, but yeah, either way much more effective in their finding anyway. But certainly the thinking is that then by having it right behind you and then it's kind of creating this bubble around you. Mm-hmm. That that could be beneficial, especially for people dealing with allergies and molds, other various issues that could be at play.

So, you know, we'll see. I mean, it just goes in the domain of more novel things that could help support our sleep. So that's there. Okay. So our second question would be, what does your morning sleep routine look like right now? 

Okay, so I live in Florida. So right now I just started, I always have these high hopes that I'm gonna swim in the outside unheated pool all winter, and I never do.

Yes. And 

so this week, uh, was really joyful because I got to start swimming first thing. And so basically my morning routine is I get up and put on my swimsuit and I go swimming. Nice. So with no sunglasses because. I'm friends with Molly, and it wouldn't go over well. Emma is 

the best. I love it. So I'm getting, 

I'm getting morning light, I'm getting some movement.

It's very relaxing. It's good for my mental health. Um, it definitely allows me to set up my day. So that's been today and yesterday, so I'm hopeful that I'll just keep going with that until. Next winter. I think you certainly will. And so that's really the first thing that's happening in the morning. And yeah, that's when I feel the best.

Mm-hmm. Is when I'm doing that. Like all winter I've been, you know, I've still been outside, I've still been walking. Mm-hmm. But there's something really magical for me about the swimming. 

I love that. And is that a newer addition? Because I, I forget if, if you were doing the swimming piece that, so I 

probably started swimming every morning, I mean, about three years ago.

Okay. I would say great. But only again, like when it's warm. Sure. Yes. We not any, I'm not doing ice plunging. I'm not doing cold pillow swimming. So we 

have our lines people. Okay. No, that's great. I love that. So you're ending your day with some relaxing water. Experiences, you're starting your day with relaxing water experiences.

That's such a great bookend on both sides, so beautifully illustrated. And then our third question would be, what is on your nightly sleep nightstand, I should say? What might we see on there? And that could also extend to other parts of your environment. 

So I would say, I don't think there's anything really exciting going on.

Okay. But I would say on my nightstand, currently I have. My HRT. 

Yes, you were alluding to that. Okay. Tell us more. So I 

went through perimenopause or I'm still in it. Yes, I know. So for anybody listening, it's kind of like the period before women stop their periods completely. And your hormones. Kind of fluctuate a lot wildly, I would say.

Yeah. Um, so I had a lot of the symptoms a couple of years ago, and I did notice that my sleep quality wasn't as good. I was doing all my things. Mm-hmm. I'm wearing my CA, but I just found that I was waking up a lot, like really fragmented sleep and yes. Definitely moody and all over the place. So eventually I did decide, talked with my doctor, and we decided I would start, um, HRT.

So a kind of like a estradiol patch Yeah. And progesterone at night. And so, and they did say like, oftentimes people find with progesterone at night during this phase of life can help with sleep. And I, I definitely have found that to be true. Hmm. Um, so that's pretty much what's on my. I stand along with, um, I definitely keep a lot of water.

Yes. 'cause I just drink constantly. Same. Um, and. I mean, that's it. Honestly, Molly, I am just telling you the truth. That's 

perfect. Yes. Well, we want minimalism too. We, we wanna find the things that work. Uh, yeah. That's great. Yeah. I finally 

got everything. This, this big shelf used to be in my bedroom, and I was working in my bedroom a lot.

Oh. So I finally got yes. This office as my work space and my bedroom is definitely for sleeping and for other beautiful nighttime things. 

I love that. Good. Okay. Amazing. And then the last question would be, so far to date, what would you say has made the biggest change to your sleep game? Or set another way?

Biggest aha moment in managing your sleep. 

I mean, I know that I'm just really hammering at home, but if I hadn't got that diagnosis with obstructive percent sleep apnea, I would still be struggling. Right, exactly. So that was such a huge turning point for me, which I think is why I feel so passionately about, you know, making sure other people that need to get the diagnosis.

So, 

oh, so good. And not only getting the diagnosis, you don't stop there 'cause then you help support, well what's the treatment that you're going to be on? And then the evolving treatment and. Compounding of many different types of things that might make a difference for people. So it's really such a journey, but it's the worthwhile journey.

And so we want to make the message be clear that please, because I've heard so many people, I'm sure you've heard this, say, ah, well. I'm not gonna take that test. I'm not gonna wear that mask or whatever. Yes. And then they, to say these absolute things. And so the people like yourself that are getting the message out there, that is not a binary treatment plan like that.

And you 

also don't know, like you have no way of knowing if you might have mild, moderate, or severe sleep apnea. You don't know, you know? So that definitely has, um, a bearing on which treatment options might be right for you. So if you don't even get tested, you don't have. You know, any of those options before you, you know, and I also know just from experience, there's a number of people I've interviewed for my podcast that would talk about, you know, they really were reluctant, but when they did finally go for an in-lab sleep study.

And had A-C-P-A-P put on them. They woke up with oxygen in their brain the next morning and realized like, oh wow. I feel completely different. Wow. So I think like just not to, yeah, just don't prejudge all that stuff. And for anybody who is listening, who. Already is diagnosed or is maybe supporting somebody with sleep apnea.

Yes, please, please, please get involved with our awareness campaign. Like if you don't want to, you know, there is definitely still some shame and stigma around sleep apnea. Yes. So people don't want to be loud and pri to about, you know, wearing their shirt and Yes. And all those things. We definitely have a lot of infographics that people can share with their community and help just raise awareness and help other people, um, get the help they need.

So important. Well, thank you Emma. Did we leave anything out of how people can? I don't think so. Okay, great. Fantastic. So you can 

definitely reach out. So, um, project Sleep is on all the socials. The website is project sleep.com. You can find us on Instagram. Got an underscore in between, so it's project underscore sleep, so go follow us there.

Um, and yeah, you can be, we definitely have, um, an email list people can be on to be kept up to date. There's just so many things going on. Um, we have like, you know, a whole advocacy thing going on in DC trying to get more awareness programs, um, funded there and just, you know, there's a lot happening. So we'd love people to join with us.

Oh, absolutely. So good. Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming on two times and being such a wonderful guest. Thank you for having me Two times. I 

didn't realize it was a big thing. Yeah, it's 

a big thing. It's totally a big thing. Yes, absolutely. We, um, only just recently hit over 200 episodes.

We still have a lot more in the can to release, but yeah, just released, you know, officially over those 200. And out of those, there's only a few people that came on a couple times. So thank you, Emma. You're the best. My pleasure. Looking forward to the third time, which I'm sure will be coming in the future.

Thank you, Molly. You've been listening to The Sleep Is A Skill Podcast, the top podcast for people who wanna take their sleep skills to the next level. Every Monday I send out the Sleep Obsessions newsletter, which aims to be one of the most obsessive newsletters on the planet. Fun fact, I've never missed a Monday for over.

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