Dylan Gemelli is a prominent figure in the fitness and biohacking industry. He is known for his expertise in health, fitness, and performance enhancement. Dylan is the creator of the Dylan Gemelli Podcast, which features enlightening discussions with experts and influencers in the health and wellness space. His work focuses on improving the quality of life through biohacking, fitness, and longevity strategies. He is currently working on his masters degree in dietetics along with certifications as an integrative health professional and cellular health advisor. Dylan is a God first family man that has his sights set on not only helping others to improve their health, wellness and quality of life but to also be an inspiration to everyone!
BIO:
Dylan Gemelli is a prominent figure in the fitness and biohacking industry. He is known for his expertise in health, fitness, and performance enhancement. Dylan is the creator of the Dylan Gemelli Podcast, which features enlightening discussions with experts and influencers in the health and wellness space. His work focuses on improving the quality of life through biohacking, fitness, and longevity strategies. He is currently working on his masters degree in dietetics along with certifications as an integrative health professional and cellular health advisor.
Dylan is a God first family man that has his sights set on not only helping others to improve their health, wellness and quality of life but to also be an inspiration to everyone!
SHOWNOTES:
😴 From athlete to biohacker: What Dylan's winding path taught him about sleep
😴 Why “I fall asleep fast” can still hide a sleep problem
😴 What really wakes you at 3 a.m.: Stress loop, screens, or physiological triggers
😴 Eat earlier, sleep deeper: How evening calories quietly hijack recovery
😴 Blue light done right: Daytime harmony vs. nighttime block—what’s the difference?
😴 Data as a mirror: How tracking nudges real behavior change
😴 Undiagnosed and common: Why testing for sleep disorders is essential
😴 Social jet lag at home: Does your weekend schedule undo your week’s progress?
😴 How to craft your circadian day
😴 Timeless nights: Ditch the clock to stop the 3 a.m. spiral
😴 Bedroom audit: darker, cooler, quieter, what’s your next 1% upgrade?
😴 Workout timing matters: Why finishing earlier smooths sleep onset and duration
😴 Evening wind-down & Morning momentum that works
😴 Break the late-night loop: Shifting from 3–4 a.m. to 10:30–11 p.m.
😴 Progress over perfection: The mindset that keeps Dylan’s change moving
😴 And so much more!
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GUEST LINKS:
Website: https://peptidepro.io
Instagram: @dylangemelli
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DylanGemelli/
DISCLAIMER:
The information contained in this podcast, our website, newsletter, and the resources available for download are not intended to be medical or health advice and shall not be understood or construed as such. The information contained on these platforms is not a substitute for medical or health advice from a professional who is aware of the facts and circumstances of your individual situation.
Welcome to the Sleep As a Skill podcast. My name is Mollie Eastman. I am the founder of Sleep as A Skill, a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability, and behavioral change. As an ex sleep sufferer turned sleep course creator, I am on a mission to transform the way the world. Thinks about sleep.
Each week I'll be interviewing world-class experts, ranging from researchers, doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Ultimately, I believe that living a circadian aligned lifestyle is going to be one of the biggest trends in wellness.
And I'm committed to keeping you up to date on all the things that you can do today to transform your circadian health and by extension, allowing you to sleep and live better than ever before.
Welcome back to The Sleepless Skill Podcast. Today I'm joined by Dylan Gemelli, a familiar name in the world of fitness and biohacking, and the host of the Dylan Jamele podcast. You may have seen him on Instagram, where over 1.5 million people follow his work on health, performance and longevity. Alongside his content, he's also pursuing a master's degree and certifications in integrative and cellular health.
In our conversation, Dylan opens up about his personal journey and how sleep has become a central part of his approach to wellness. We talk about the common habits. That quietly undermine sleep, those late nights heavy meals, screen time, and the practical shifts that can make an immediate difference from adjusting workout timing to using light more strategically.
We also dig into the role of data, how tracking can guide behavior change, and why testing for sleep disorders is often an. Overlooked but crucial step. This episode is full of real world takeaways and an honest look at what it takes to protect your sleep while juggling a busy life. If you struggled with restless nights, wake-ups, or inconsistent schedules.
Dylan's story and strategies will offer plenty of inspiration and direction. So let's jump into the episode first. A few words from our sponsors. Please do check them out. They really do keep this podcast going. We only partner with companies that we truly believe in, so give them a look and then we'll get right into this episode.
If you're listening to this podcast, you're likely looking to improve your sleep, and one of the first questions people ask me about sleep is what supplement they can take. One supplement I've consistently taken for ages is Magnesium, specifically by optimizers, magnesium breakthrough. It's an all natural supplement that helps reduce fatigue, improve sleep quality, and promote peaceful risk.
It also strengthens muscles and improves heart and brain function. Most magnesium supplements aren't full spectrum, but magnesium breakthrough contains an optimal ratio of all seven essential types of magnesium. Now imagine having the strength and energy to get outta bed every morning, face the day boldly, and maintain that energy throughout the day and into the night.
If you wanna give it a try, go to buy optimizers.com/sleep as a skill and use the code, sleep as a skill to get gifts with your purchase. And this is a limited time offer, but I think it'll be. Pleasantly surprised by the results. And welcome to the Sleep is a Skill podcast. This episode is gonna be jam packed with all kinds of things that you can do immediately really well, very soon to support your sleep and also learn about some things that we wanna be wary of and avoid doing like we've all done at some point in time.
So thank you so much, Dylan, for taking the time to be here.
It's great to be here. I've been looking forward to this for a while, and I'm looking forward to giving you what I've got, but learning from you at the same time.
Oh, fantastic. All right. Well, this is gonna be great. Well, maybe we should start then at the beginning and how you became such an expert in your field and how this can connect to this topic of sleep.
Oh yeah. Loaded, loaded question. I'll keep it brief. Yes. The big one. Yeah. Yes. Now I keep it brief. I do get into my backstory a little bit. I was actually. An athlete in college and I got hurt multiple times, so I actually went into modeling and acting and did that for several years. Uh, unfortunately it put me on a really bad path, uh, in multitudes of ways, one being.
A lot of partying, alcohol, things of that nature that go along with that. And being a 20, you know, in my twenties and just out of control. But I, I have a backstory that I've shared many of times and I got myself into serious trouble in my twenties. Um, uh. I couldn't keep up with the lifestyle that I wanted to keep up with, and I was trying to hotshot everything and I was very into Dylan instead of into God and all of the efforts and works that I'm into now.
And when you're into yourself, you tend to make some pretty selfish decisions without thinking or caring about anybody else. And so I actually, um, some people get surprised and some people are like, well, it's, it happens. But I, I was. Sent to prison. I had a 15 year prison sentence at 27 years old, and I am 43 now.
I actually, upon perfect behavior and doing everything that I did, and mind you, this was selling drugs to keep up with my lifestyle. 'cause I didn't know how to make the money. I couldn't, I couldn't keep up. I, I wanted cars, I wanted clothes, I wanted everything. Yep. But the money I was making was so short because modeling and acting may sound like this big dream when in fact it is.
Not even remotely close to what you think once you get going into it. Yeah, but long story short, I, I was out of there in two years. I actually got sent to Hawaii where my parents were. Once I was released, I was supposed to be there on five years, and I did one and they let me go because I did absolute.
Angel work behavior where I did nothing. Wow.
Yeah,
I did absolutely nothing. But during that time, I met my wife, who at the time was the complete polar opposite of me. Never got into trouble, never did anything wrong, clearly, exactly what I needed. Okay. So beautiful. Great influence there, and she was very supportive and she stuck with me when I was living in my mom's basement with nothing to where we are now today.
Amazing. So that'll tell you in terms of the loyalty and kind of, that's the way I was raised anyway, so I had everything given to me when I was growing up. I had just a dream childhood. I mean, my parents weren't rich, but they gave me everything. I was an only child, so I really, really did a number on them and.
You know, I regret all of that, but I also used it as a tool and as a learning experience for me that I thrive on to this day. Because I look at it like this, if that stuff didn't happen, I would not, I wouldn't be talking to you. I wouldn't have met my wife, I wouldn't have had the family I have, I wouldn't have had this career so beautiful.
I don't recommend anybody go to prison, but I deserved it and I needed it. So, um, anyway, after that fact. I started to take all of my nighttime after I would work, and then my, my schedule was simple work, go to the gym, go to the beach, go home, stay away from everybody or anything that could get me into trouble.
Smart. Yeah. And I spent all my evenings researching health and fitness,
um,
studying bodybuilding and diet at that time. So what happened was. Is I got noticed very quickly on bodybuilding forum by one of the larger supplement companies, and they came to me and said, look, we wanna make you a YouTube video, like, uh, influencer and build you.
Wow. Yeah. And I said, okay, sweet. So what are we gonna do? And yeah. Okay, so, so here's the deal. Well, we want you to educate people on steroids. And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, dude, I just got out of trouble. So, um. I looked into it, talked to an attorney, no problem. As long as you're obviously not selling 'em, you can, it's information.
And I spent a lot of time teaching people the facts of them and trying to get 'em to not use 'em, but if they are coaching them on how to properly do it. But then I was introduced to SARMs and Peptides, which were in the underground world. Mm. Mind you, I got certifications from NASM at this time, certified nutritionist, certified, um, personal trainer, master trainer.
I, I have about nine or 10. I let a few laps at this point, so I don't want to act like, you know, but at the time,
yeah.
And, um. I leveraged that. I built two YouTube channels with over 500,000 subscribers each channel.
Wow.
Unfortunately, both got shut down and I had to start from scratch. Yeah. So you see this starting from scratch trend I've got going on here.
Yes. Yeah. I look
at you just like getting back up and Yeah, you back at it. You know, a lesser person might've been like, all right, that's it, you know? That's amazing.
I think once you're reduced to nothing and you come back from it, you realize there's really not much worse that could happen.
The gift of nothing.
I love that. Yeah.
Well, yeah, it's like I said, I don't recommend it, but yes. It shaped things. So I rebuilt and I got shut down again. And so we're talking around like COVID time and we were mm-hmm. Opening a gym at the time. And the timing for that was obviously garbage uhhuh, because that. So I focused on Instagram more while still doing some YouTube on the side.
And now my, you my, see where my Instagram has gone. I'm in gig. I, I'm closing in on that 2 million gap on Instagram and then I started to rebuild. My YouTube, which is, you know, it's decent. It's like 80,000 now. But then I got to speak at Mr. Olympia last year, and that was like my culmination because I was not just looked at as an influencer.
I was with doctors Sure. And was recognized, and I held it down when I went, and so I got to. Talk with a lot after and start, you know, I was just starting to podcast, well, when I was there, the whole reason I went was to speak, but I ended up getting introduced to Monica Brandt, who was a former Miss Olympia, and they, I was offered to co-host with her at a booth there, so.
She was being sponsored by STEM Regen and you know, STEM Regen Sure is very, very big in biohacking.
Yeah.
So I hit it off with them immediately. Well, I came home and I was all pumped up, like, let's, you know, let's go. I got all these things going. I got COVID like right when I got home.
No. Oh
yeah. So, I'm sorry.
I finally used that. I'm a very spiritual guy and I used that as like, okay, I'm gonna trust there's a reason for this God, and I'm just gonna hope that I figure it out. Well, when I was home, what I did was I started looking at STEM regen stuff 'cause they were, you know, we were talking about doing some work and I realized very quickly that wow.
All these years you've been trying to figure out what you're supposed to do. You know, you're not supposed to be making the the videos you're doing, although you're helping people. And it hit me right then it was biohacking. Mm. And I'm telling you, Molly, I went from zero to a million in just a few months and I have done everything I can because I really just started into the biohacking Sure.
Area in November. And we're only in, what are we in May.
Yeah.
So I feel like I've really. Found what I'm supposed to do in my calling, but hopefully I feel as though made a pretty significant impact in a short amount of time. I'm just getting started and I got a lot of work to do, but this is where it's, it's at now and I haven't felt this good, I don't think ever.
So,
my God. Well, this is incredible. I'm so grateful to be in the cross hairs of all that is happening, and I love your outlook and how you're speaking to kind of just diving in. For some people they would say, oh, COVID, there's nothing positive about this and yet, sounds as if you were being open to this.
And then all this magic and miracles came out of all this. So fantastic. Love this. And I guess what I'm curious about too is. Throughout all of this, a little kind of window into how you've been thinking about sleep in the midst of this whole journey. So now again, is another big question, but any kind of major shifts or changes or things that you think about or ways that you think about sleep to support listeners?
Because it sounds like you've had many different paths or places that you've been a part of on your journey. Sure. Prison sleep is a whole different thing than
Than
bodybuilding sleep, than biohacking sleep. Oh. So kind of walk us through that.
So, you know, it's funny because you do what I do and you have such a.
Drastic focus on health and Yes. And, but when you're specializing in certain areas, what I have found from several people I've talked to, because I'm an analyzer and I'm a data guy. Yeah. And I like to talk to a lot of people, is we know just like, you know, doing what you do. Yeah. The different areas. That we need to focus on and how they kind of line up and equal into one.
And if you're lacking in one, it can throw everything else. 'cause I do a lot of hormone optimization, right? And so I always tell people, I can put you on everything under the sun, but if you're not hormonally optimized, it's not going to, it's either not gonna work at all or it's gonna be skewed on what you're getting out of it.
So same goes with this, with what you just asked me. Yeah. I've been so diet and diet driven and looking at health markers and reading blood panels, but. I have been very severely lacking in sleep, which is really why I wanted to be here and talk with you because Oh,
fantastic.
Yeah. I feel like, well, one being introduced to you as I was that I was able to, to look at your work more because I don't just go on podcasts without studying who I'm going to speak with and vice versa.
If I have you on Totally. I do a real deep look into things and I will credit you with. Helping me to see how much I was lacking and how, you know, more serious I need to be. Mm. Or else how are people gonna listen to me and, and take what I'm taking serious if I'm not covering all the different facets of health?
Well, sleep is one of the biggest areas that people are lacking that can cause a slew of problems, which. When I'm doing a blood panel, I need to be asking, how's your sleep? Because
you know,
yes, you know, you and I both know cortisol issue. Yes, inflammation issue, cardiovascular issue, mental acuity issue, and alertness.
It all ties into sleep. Attitude. Your, your ability to burn fat as opposed to carbs properly can be totally skewed if you're not sleeping properly, not sleeping enough, waking up odd hours. Getting off circadian rhythm. Um, and I don't know a fraction of what I need to know, but I do know a little bit and I know that my patterns and routines, I just now I'm so, I'm, I'm a spontaneous guy.
Yeah. I'm a guy that like, will just, like, I'll go in one day to my wife and I'll say, Hey, we're gonna go do this. Or Hey, I got a car coming home right now, it's being shipped here. That's just what I do. So I went in there one day and I said, okay, we we're gonna start going to bed at x time. And she's just like, okay, she's used to it now, right?
Yes. So, um, my problem is twofold. I tend to try to work way too late or mm-hmm. I try to do 500 things at once during the day, and then it just drags and drags and it's like, oh, one more thing. One more thing. Turns into a hundred things.
Yes.
And using screens late at night, eating late at night, it became so habitual.
You develop a habit even though you know it's not good, right? Oh,
absolutely. Yeah.
So I've gone through so many different bad habits at night, whether it's eating car, like a ton of like oatmeal. Yes. Massive amounts to try to catch up on calories I'm missing. So oatmeal. Mm-hmm. All of this stuff I shouldn't be eating before bed.
Sure.
Um, staring at screens for an hour and a half. Right before bed, working out so late at night. I mean, I can go down a list and it's like never ending alone. This is beautiful. Yeah, no, I mean, I
think everyone can see themselves in what you're sharing to a greater or lesser extents in different seasons of life, and it's so valuable because often when we see that mirror put up to us than we can see Oh, right.
This is not where you maybe have been resigned or maybe have a blind spot that, oh, this area is not a problem for me, and until it becomes a problem. Yeah. So that's one of the things we see, but people can get away with things for a little bit of time, and then burnout or kind of overwhelm or all these things can emerge, and even things that maybe we could get away with in our twenties.
Suddenly in thirties and forties and beyond. It's just not cutting in the same way. No. So I love that, and I love that vulnerability and that kind of growth mindset to be diving in and looking at what can we do to make a difference there. You know, it's interesting. One of the things that we do a lot with people is create their kind of circadian crafted day, if you will.
Educating around circadian rhythm, entrainment, how to entrain and strengthen your circadian rhythm, and then really designing kind of a blueprint for the day of where to put those certain things that would strengthen our circadian rhythm, some of our key zeitgeber or time givers that can support the circadian rhythm being a few things.
And it sounds like you've already identifying a lot of these and but just to rattle some of those off our light dark timing, our sleep wake timing, and I love that you put in the consistency factor there. One of the things that we have people be especially cognizant of or double down on, is the wake up time too, because wake up time being the one side of the coin that you can always have a say around versus, I don't know if you've ever dealt with kind of difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep, but certainly for people that kinda identify as like insomniacs, they can get really stressed out or kind of sleep anxiety emerge, you know?
Then they're trying to fall asleep and it's like, oh no, I have said my bedtime was 10 and now it's 10 15, and what do I do? And then it just, you know, spirals. Whereas if we say, okay, like a little bit of grace with the, you set the stage for sleep, I mean, do all those great things, but then releasing the pressure.
But the area that you really maintain seven days a week being that wake up time, plus or minus around 30 minutes. And then what's interesting? Is that in the beginning people often really, really dislike us for saying this. In the beginning, you know, for the first week, two weeks, it's like, ah, this, screw this, it sucks.
But then eventually things start to really fall into place, and then the magic happens because then you're starting to wake up at around the same time. And then the other side of it, the bedtime starts to become more automatic and you're getting sleepy at the same time. But here's what I would say the magic is, and this is one of the reasons why I.
I'm so obsessed with sleep optimization. Well, there's a number of reasons, but one of the reasons is because I believe it acts as an opportunity for kind of growth and development, and it sounds like you're absolutely in that kind of mindset piece because one of the things that we find is exactly what we're talking about is many times it goes into an opportunity to.
See what's working, what's not working in our lives, and we're playing a game with it, especially if you do wearable tracking. Are you tracking your sleep now?
I was using the Ora ring there for about a month or so. Okay. Just to get an idea. Sure. Of what I was looking at and what I needed to work on.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, but then there was period like uh, I
just stopped wearing it. I found it to be a little uncomfortable for myself. Okay. But I got the data that I wanted to, that I know that I need to work on.
Sure. Yeah. Totally. Well, if you go back into the world of tracking it all, I'm sure you probably saw like Whoop just released that whole new Oh yeah.
So they just released a very exciting new update. So they have now can track blood pressure. They have medical grade components on this new bracelet, they, it charges for 14 days. It's much more fine tuned. So if you don't like it on the ring. Yeah, that would definitely be my next suggestion. And or if you are willing to explore the ring again or it also just came out with the, now it can link up with Dexcom so you can see what your blood sugar is doing in alignment with sleep.
'cause we see those so wildly connected.
Really? Yeah. Oh yeah,
yeah, they just had a, I think it was like $75 million, something along those, that range kind of partnership that they're engaged in. So the ability to utilize those is really exciting. But I share all that because that's where we can start to see the information that can often help with behavioral change.
For, for instance, like the meal timing piece. So when we eat later. We can on order of magnitude, around on average about 10 beats per minute of a difference in heart rate while sleeping commonly. And that's just what we see in our groups and what have you. But a difference of a rise up in heart rate and drop in HRV heart rate variability when we eat later, for instance.
And yet the movement back of that can make such a market difference for not only our stats, but our experience of our sleep. And then the last thing I would just say about all that, 'cause I love what you shared there. One of the other pieces for growth and development I think is that one of the things we get to go to work on is our relationship to our word.
Because so much of it get becomes this cool game of like, okay, what time am I giving my word to being done with my work? By what time am I giving my word to having my last bit of food by like not being militant or something? Obviously we can have spontaneity and play and whatever, but from a workability perspective, what time do we largely.
Kind of do certain things and then if we're gonna delve out of like a little Pareto's principle, acknowledging that, and tonight I'm gonna go a little bit later and I'm gonna do X, Y, Z, but having it be really clear for ourselves so that we're working on that relationship to our word. 'cause that's one of the things we find can be a really cool Trojan horse effect is as we dive into.
Supporting our sleep. Suddenly we get to improve all these other areas of life, which is kind of neat. But anyway, that's enough of me talking. So having said all that, yeah, I'd love to hear, so then those elements that haven't worked and yet, things that you found that have worked, share, share the whole world of it.
So it's funny because like you see, the glasses I have on is, yes, these are viva rays.
Sure. Great.
And so I partnered with them and I, I'm very selective on my partners. I'm sure you know this. I mean, in our world, once you get a larger following, then there's a lot of people that wanna partner with you. I won't do it simply because I have to be such a strong believer, not only in the product, but the messaging of the product and the people that are selling the product.
I don't just. Take the money I would've 10 years ago.
Yes, I understand. But I,
yeah, but I, I mean, I'm not there anymore. I'm there because I am, I'm one of those led by God's words of what I feel is gonna be the best for me to do it. And so anyway, I had worn. This is when my sleep got the worst. I wore those true dark glasses, not understanding that they were completely blocking blue light all day long.
Yes. And
now I've gotten such a deep understanding from Rudy at Viva rates. Yes. She's great in terms of Yes. And he told me to tell you Hi, by the way. I just talked to him earlier. Um, but
Oh, fantastic.
We're harmonizing blue light during the day now, right? Yes. And then in the evening, and then there's certain shades of glasses that, that we wear that as the sun goes down and you got your evening glasses and then the red ones that are just the full blown.
And so I'm trying to, I had to fix my circadian rhythm after wearing the other ones.
Yes.
I mean, I, I was waking up within four hours and I could not go back to sleep at all. And it was horrible. It took like three weeks and I just kept telling my wife, I don't know what happened. Like I can't stop. And yeah, I am a guy.
I can fall asleep on the drop of a dime. Sure. Like literally. But I tend to wake up after about five and a half hours consistently. And then I do struggle because in my head I'm thinking about 700 things that I have to do.
Totally.
A lot of times when I'm going to bed at three and four in the morning, which I have a had a problem doing that I'm trying to correct now.
It's sure. You, you, first of all, when you are waking up at nine 30 or 10 o'clock, you're really not starting your day till 11. By the time you get up, get ready, get awake, and even then it's harder because it's so much later, and then you're so far behind and then you're stressed all day because you're so far behind, so you're never catching up, right?
And the sleep is not as good. When you go to bed that late and it's just so unproductive, and then it just, it turns into this downward spiral of like, you can't get out of it. And it's so easy when you're in a bad habit to keep on it and to break it is difficult. And then to start a new one it. But once you see, for me, it's like.
Once you try something and you say, oh shit, I can do this. You know, and you do. And then it's like, well, it's not really so bad is it? And then it's like, wow, it's actually really good. So you try a little harder, try a little harder, try a little harder. So I'm just doing like three and four o'clock now I'm between one and two o'clock.
My hope is to be between 11 and 12 o'clock. Do you know to go to sleep?
Totally.
And get up by seven. I like to get up, say prayers, go for a walk immediately. Like that's what I like to start my day and like, you know, I do a full face routine skin. I'm a big skincare guy and like everything.
Oh, amazing.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah. That's what modeling will do to you for Yes, I'm sure to
learn those tips. My issue is I'm out in the sun so often now with the circadian piece, so love to hear what you've, what you've done. Oh yeah. Nice.
I'm the fine line expert, but that's another story for another day.
Okay.
But yes, I feel like if you're getting up when the sun's coming up, you're far more productive.
You are feeling better throughout the day. And my mom would always give me the lecture, the best sleeps before midnight and you know, and I just, yes. Whatever, just stop it. But I think she, you know, now, yeah, it's one of those things as you get older, it's like, man, my parents were right about things, even though she didn't know science about any of it.
She was, yeah. She was actually, right. And so, you know, my goal, like I say, I believe probably if I could get to sleep between 10 30 and 11 would probably be the most ideal. Now in my head I'm like, yeah, right, right now, yes. But I think that would probably be the best in getting up at six. Six 30 in the morning and I've done that before.
Yeah. I mean, back when I like the prison schedule, I would go to bed at 9, 9 30, get up at 3 30, 4 o'clock, and I was outside at four o'clock working out.
Wow.
Yeah. But once I got out of there and got into a normal routine, I lived in Hawaii. You still want to get up at 5 30, 6 in the morning 'cause of the air.
Totally.
And so I was on that schedule for a very long time. But then we moved to Las Vegas and I started working nonstop.
Oh. How long were you in Vegas? We were, um, in Vegas for during COVID.
Oh, were you really?
Yeah, so I work with a lot of high stakes poker players and so does my husband too. So he was a psychology professor, background in forensics.
So reads. Oh, cools. Um, tells at the poker table. Oh, sweet. Yeah, so he does, um, he did the largest study ever conducted on poker players and breaks down their nonverbals and what have, so actually we're going to Vegas, no, you're not there now, but going in a couple weeks. So we go every year for a world series of poker.
I wonder if we were crossing paths at all. Were you there during COVID or,
no, I lived there, I think I moved in 2012 and I think I left in 2016 and that's when we went to Seattle from there. And now we live in Iowa and then we're going moving to Phoenix. So yeah, there you
go.
Yeah. Got it.
So Vegas kind of messed with things a bit like skewed later?
Well, because I started taking on such a different role with work, I, I never went out or did any like, anything like that at all. It, it's funny 'cause you live there and you don't do any of those things that you would go there for the weekend to do. Um, exactly.
Yeah.
No, I just got onto this schedule where it was like, I just started working crazy and I was up, so I, I was like a go to bed at four or five in the morning, get up at 11 or 12 guy at that point.
Yeah. But it was a different kind of work thing. And then when we moved to Washington, my wife worked overnight, so she was going to bed at six and seven. So I was actually going to bed like. Really early. Not that early, but Right. I was up in CO in comparison. Sure. Yeah. I was getting up at six or seven in the morning and then when we moved here, I just got all, I just all over the place.
Yeah. And it's just, you know, it's easy to happen, but now doing what I do and knowing what I know and understanding the detriment. Mental effects that it can have, especially long term and I would argue will definitely shorten your lifespan if you do it too long. I'm trying to take it far more serious.
My problem now is just, it's like that six hour mark and I'm just having trouble because I'm just so anxious every day. 'cause I got so many things going on.
Sure.
I literally am like the king of falling asleep, but like the worst, once I'm up, you know,
once you're up, then you're kind of, it's hard to fall back asleep after the wake up.
Yeah. Yeah. It's
just not easy. Or when I do fall back asleep, it's just like 45 minutes or an hour.
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Well one, I'm so glad you're sharing that because we, that's literally one of the most popular reasons that people come our way is because of Wake Up and they're so frustrated with Wake Up Second in line is the difficulty falling asleep, but Wake Up are the most common. I know US News and World Report just did a sleep survey in 2025 and they found that 89% of Americans were dealing with, you know, kind of chronic Wake up.
Wake up. Yeah. So it's a big problem. So, certainly not alone, but there are so many reasons for wake-ups. I mean, we have to do way more individualized episodes on this exact topic because when you start going through the, I actually just did an IG live a little bit ago of 22 reasons for Wake up, and those are just, that's like not an exhaustive list.
There's so many, but the good thing about that is then. Once we start pinning, you know, and fine tuning what those reasons are for that individual, we can make such a difference. But I love that you already kind of identified some of the sympathetic nervous system kind of activation, that stress response.
And then it can be this vicious cycle because then we're kind of running a little stress. We got a lot on our plate and then we're not sleeping as much. And so now we're like more stressed because some, it can kind of throw off some emotional regulation. The other issue there is that as we tend to go to bed later, and believe me that was part of my whole story was my husband and I, we were such like night owls.
Like extreme night owls. There are periods where we're gonna bed, the sun is rising, birds are chirping, and we're like going bed. And so this whole thing happened, um, started for me about a decade ago when I went this period of insomnia and it changed my whole life, the understanding and kind of learning more about this.
But when we do go to bed late. Like later into kind of the clock and whatever time zone you're on, you tend to have more of a higher ratio of REM and REM sleep being important because then it can help support kind of your inner therapist or mental kind of processing, emotional regulation, all those things.
But then the flip side can be if we're having troubles. Staying asleep. REM tends to happen on the second half of our night. So when that's the case, then we're not getting as much of that rem. So we'd wanna learn more about what your kind of sleep breakdown looks like. But it can be interesting because as we start to support minimizing more of those wake ups, we can get more of that REM or the inner therapist, more that emotional regulation.
And then it helps support all that kind of stress response throughout the course of the day. So. Love that you're looking at this 'cause it's such a important area and so many reasons why that could be at play.
One of the, I, I did a podcast, man, it's been several months. It was with Samantha Cutler, I think that told me about, she recommended I get, um.
The the sleep blanket. And then the thing for my eyes that covered my eyes, I wanna say it was Nod Pod or something. Pod. But I started using that and it did help a little bit too. Like the weighted blanket. That's the weighted blanket. Yep. Totally. Yes. And so I cover my eyes with that. It feels nice on your eyes, but I always move around and.
It falls off. But anyway, that was just a couple things that I did add that I kind of forgot to tell you about too. Yeah. Just for a little bit of added benefit. But you know, one of the things my wife would always complain about the air conditioner not being on low enough. So we started sleeping in a colder environment, which I know is a lot better.
So that's been more comfortable, I think, too. Yeah. And I am trying to just look at every possible scenario I can to like alleviate. The lack of, because they know how important it is. And I, it's weird because I'll tell you, I'll get like one night a week, and it's normally Saturday to Sunday where I, I'll be like, whoa, I slept seven hours, but it's outta nowhere, you know?
And then, right. It's, I don't know if it's because. Maybe I, I, I honestly don't because I still, I still have work every day, but I don't know if there's something more soothing about Sunday where I realize it's not nearly as, I don't have appointments scheduled. Normally, yes, I do my recording, like personal recording and stuff, but I know that I've got a little break and maybe that's it.
I don't know.
Yeah, we do see that actually kind of that. Anticipatory anxiety or anticipatory like, you know, even it can be excitement or it can be, you know, whatever. But when we have like a lot on our plate for subsequent days, it can impact our ability to fully relax for that previous night. And if we have a tendency to shift.
Some of our sleep wake scheduling, then we can deal with what's in a social jet lag. So we don't get on a plane, but we're dealing with the kind of the symptoms of jet lag. If we move around kind of our wake up time or bedtime, or even if it's well-intentioned, if we're like, okay, I, you know, feel off track, I'm gonna try to go to bed early, or I'm gonna try to wake up early.
But then that can be confusing for the circadian rhythm and kind of our sleep wake response and our hormones. So. Love everything you're saying 'cause it's really so relatable for so many people. So maybe what we can do, we ask everyone four questions around how they're currently managing their sleep. I know we've gotten to some of it, but maybe we can kind of get into a little bit of what we can see from you on currently your nighttime sleep routine is looking like right now.
And that could involve travel or what have you, depending on how you think about it. Yeah.
So now. Instead of like having meals and stuff right before I go to bed, I generally go downstairs and I have a massage chair downstairs and I do 30 minutes in that thing. Hmm, that's great. And I do that. I come back upstairs and I've put on the, the red glasses at that point, but I stopped.
Playing on my iPad for 20 minutes before I go to bed or scrolling and reading, whatever. 'cause I don't, you know, my day's so consumed with work, I would use that time to either look into some research that I study or whatever, or on a random occasion, just take some time to look up some sports stuff or whatever I wanna follow.
Yes. Um, and I stopped watching so much TV at night and so I come upstairs, I take a bite of, of. The whole fat Greek yogurt. I find that that's a little bit helpful. Just a, a spoon and a couple, a handful of walnuts for a little bit of, um, help with sleep, uh, in terms of not eating too much, but just some foods that are known to help maybe have a deeper sleep or better sleep.
And then I'm not. Thinking about, oh my gosh, I'm starving. 'cause I've already been fasting for a couple hours before that and I know I'm gonna fast in the morning. And then I just honestly say a couple prayers, fill my water up to take it downstairs and just, I normally pass out really quick. I mean, normally.
On most nights, I'd say within five minutes. There's a couple times where you got a lot going on or whatever, but I'm so drained. Yeah. By the time the day's over. And normally I've already fallen asleep in 20 or 30 minutes in that chair. 'cause normally I, I get in that thing and my wife will come out and say, your alarm's still going off and you're not getting up.
You know? And
yes.
Sometimes I'll find that it's been an hour that I've been sitting there, 'cause the thing's only 30 minutes.
Mm. And
so either my cat yelling at her to come wake me up 'cause she's wondering why I'm not moving. Or she is just. Like where is he? Why is he in bed yet? Because she always goes to bed before I do.
'cause she knows I'm, I'm just that way. Um, but that's generally it now at this point. 'cause it used to be, I'd make, oh, it was terrible. I mean between, like I said, the scrolling, the eating, the Yes, because I was catching up. 'cause I wasn't eating all day.
Exactly. Right. Okay. I completely understand that.
'cause yeah, most of the people we work with are commonly. Entrepreneurs or athletes or people that can make their own schedules. Yes. And that can be this blessing and a curse because suddenly, you know, we've got so much on our shoulders and then trying to fit everything in. Completely understand. Have you had a sleep test by any chance?
No. I need, I need all kinds of testing and all kinds of, let's
get you tested. Yeah. Yes. Because the only call it I would say too, and if anyone's listening, because this is so common, we see this all the time, and actually my husband was one of these people, so. He would always fall asleep the minute his head hits the pillow and the whole thing.
Yeah. And then we tested him and he had sleep apnea and it changed his life by really optimizing this piece of thing. And it's so common. So estimates are 80% of people in the United States that have sleep apnea are undiagnosed. So this is like a huge percent of the population that is dealing with this.
And so there can be. Sleep apnea, but there's over a hundred sleep wake disorders. So many of us just are running around undiagnosed, so we can have some form of, it could also be upper area resistance syndrome, so maybe it's not full-blown sleep apnea, but we're struggling to breathe properly or you know, any issues with our nose.
Like for instance, I had a slight debated septum and I didn't know most of my life, and I was able to get that corrected with this process called viver. Written about literally 20 minutes that an ENT can do using radio frequency. So there's tons of things that can be done, but it'd be very curious your results because for two reasons.
One, it can be sleep disorders. The second one can be sleep deprivation, which you know, can come up when we're just not getting enough of that. Sleep night after night can start to kind of build. And with those wake-ups that can commonly be the case. So I'm excited for you because there could be some cool information coming your way.
Anything, and you know, I'm the guy, you know how some people. If they have a problem, they don't wanna talk about it or hide it. I'm like the, no, I love this. You're so
refreshing because, oh, and that's what I wanna really get the message out too, and that you're helping to create such a beautiful opportunity for that is I really, with this company, I want to start to be more clear with our messaging that when we say sleep is a skill, it's not about perfection.
It's 'cause sleep and perfection get like. Real not good bedfellows like, you know. Yeah. Because then people get stressed out and anxious and you know, it can be a whole mess. So instead we're looking to just build the skillset and education, but also it's often about how we're managing our health and wellbeing, our life, our stress load, our.
Businesses, our relationships like it spiders out into so many different areas for different people depending on what they're dealing with. So it's just instead an opportunity to look to kinda our days and how those are getting managed and then the nights can kind of fall into place. Yeah. So you sharing this.
Makes such a difference, so thank you. Thank you.
I just want to get things fixed and so I always know who to go to to help me to fix it, and I'm happy to share it so people see and they know like that every person has these kind of problems and hopefully it sheds some light on, Hey, don't do these bad habits.
Don't do what I did. But what I find is oftentimes the best teachers have made the most mistakes and they learn, but they learn from I'm definitely one of those
people. Yeah,
yeah. But they also learn and don't keep doing the same things over and over again. Yeah. So while. You have to be accepting and utilize it.
You also have to learn from it. And when I say learn from it, part of learning from it is not doing it again. Exactly. You know what I mean? Yes. I mean,
totally. A hundred percent. Yeah. Well love everything you just shared there. So our second question would be, what does your morning sleep routine with the idea of how we start our day can impact our sleep?
I know you spoke to some of the benefits of up and out and getting your walk and all this. Anything we missed in your morning routine?
So I think. You know, for me, like, and everybody's different with their spirituality. I say prayers in bed, say one over, my wife and I get up and I immediately, well, my cat's waiting for me yelling at me to give her attention.
Yes. So I have to do that first too. But then I just, I get right upstairs and I have a full skin routine. I do. And then I make, uh, like a morning powders, I take drink 'em, and then I'm right out the door and I'm walking 20 minutes. And then I come home. I don't like to have coffee or caffeine for about an hour to 90 minutes.
Sure. So then I, if I don't hit cardio right away, I sit down for about an hour. Normally I have morning appointments and like calls and stuff and like. I have to do sales. I have a bunch of routine that I do, but then I hit cardio midday and I have a very structured eating and everything. I just don't eat in the morning, really.
I, I tend to fast a little in the morning, a little bit longer. Um, and that seems to fall in line to when I do eat. I'm, I'm very mentally aware throughout the day, so I think that food timing, it's different. Some people, and some people have a different. Outlook on that, and I respect it, that they want you to eat protein right.
In the morning or right away. And, and I'm also good with that and, and I don't have any issue with that. I'm just talking what I works for me personally, but I coach a lot of people to eat early in the morning. Sure. But you, you have to understand that a lot of these things are person to person specific.
And works for one does not necessarily work for the other and. A lot of people don't understand that. Well, that's what I do, so everybody should do that, but that's just not how it works. Um, you know this, if you coach people that you can't just tell everybody the same thing or you'd be a multi qua billionaire and never work again because you have the answer.
Yeah. True. You know? Exactly. No, that's true. I mean, it's just not
how life works. Yeah.
And
people fall into that trap and, and then they want to tell everybody just 'cause they experience something. That's it. Mm-hmm. I take data, like I'm sure you do. And I go look. This is the majority, so we can base it on this, but we still have a lot of work on each person, so totally what I do.
Hopefully some people could try and it works, but it doesn't mean it's going to.
Hmm.
Well said. Yeah. I know that bioindividuality is so important. And also just like, so for instance, one of the things we're often looking to support people with is kind of moving their overall meal window to a certain extent on more front loaded, right?
Yes. And to be more circadian aligned so that you're largely eating when the sun is out and not eating as much when the sun has set. And I know you're moving to Arizona, which is gonna be a perfect place for this 'cause it's just. So consistent, they don't deal with the time change stuff. It's like brilliant.
It's gonna be so nice. And you're pointing to a, a really important thing. And there's also like values and things that people are connected to. So for instance, we have some people that say, yeah, that's nice and the family dinner is so important to me. So, you know, I'm willing to kind of like super shift that a lot earlier.
So we kinda work within that domain. And so how can we. Maybe can we scoot things a little bit earlier? Can we play with volume? So can we titrate down volume to be lesser into the, as the day goes on and into the evening hours, there's less to digest, less of kind of a, you know, taxing process for the body to have to undertake and then not.
Spill into kind of our sleep time when we're looking to support, for instance, with deep sleep glymphatic drainage with a G. So kind of the cleansing process of the brain that happens on the first half of the night so that the body can really focus on like high value tasks, kind of like that. And cellular repair and growth hormone.
And for men, testosterone well for everyone, but also, yeah, especially for men. So having said all that, I love what your points too about that bioindividuality and how can we align with the rhythms of nature kind of. Take some of that blueprint, but then also customize it. So you know, we've got like Brian Johnson, everyone's familiar with him.
He's stopping his last bit of food around 11:00 AM famously. So, you know, there's really extremes and then we can have some form in between all that. So. So having said all that, that's your morning routine. And then the third question is, what might we visually see an on your nightstand or in your environment?
Well, my nightstand's pretty minimal. I have a cross on my nightstand. Oh, nice. I have some Holy, holy water. I have my, oh, wow. Normally my blanket's sitting there waiting for me and then a phone charger, and then I always put my water there in case I wake up in the middle of the night and I'm just so thirsty.
But I try to keep it minimal, so there's not a ton of things on there. Yeah. Um, but that's pretty much it. My phone is there in case. Uh, like I want to because when I wake up I look at the time. Yeah. And I'm always like hoping it's one that's part of my problem. I'm hoping it's later than it is and it's always a hell of a lot earlier than it is.
And I'll look at it and I can gauge by the light that's coming in normally, but I can't tell you how many mornings I wake up. And I'm really disappointed when I look at the clock because it's too damn early. Like,
okay. Yes. And I have been there too. I know exactly what we're talking about. Like there was periods of time when I would get so anxious and like.
Angry or like frustrated. Yes. Like again, we do, are you kidding? Yeah, exactly. I have a big day. I can't just, you know, and I can kind of like be light and laugh about it now, but at the time there was periods when I was like, I'm losing my mind. This can not keep going on. So I totally understand what you're talking about.
And so a couple things. If anyone is dealing with this too, and listening and really also frustrated, there's lots of stuff we can do on the front end, but one thing we would like to often bring in is how can we make kind of a timeless evening? And this can sound potentially like a soft skill thing, or like, oh, could this make much of a difference?
It tends to really make such a psychological difference. So what we do is remove all forms of time from the bedroom and in the bathroom, and anywhere that you're gonna be. So that we have no clue about the time. And that's also where kind of total blackout and stuff can really make a difference too.
'cause you can't even gauge, you know, like, well the moon is at this angle, you know, you start to do all kinds of weird stuff. Mm-hmm. So if we could remove all of that and make these like timeless evenings, what tends to, it can start to interrupt that common loop that we can get into where it's just so reflexive, so kind of Pavlovian and where then we.
See the time and it's like not a time we like, and then suddenly we spiral and we go into a whole mess of thought patterns. Also, we have research to support that are ways of thinking in the wee hours of the morning are flawed, if you will. So meaning there's a really great study called The Mind After Midnight.
And they found that commonly our thought patterns, say like at 3:00 AM are very different than 3:00 PM for the same person. So meaning we tend to have more catastrophic thinking, black and white thinking, and sadly suicidality rates and other problems. So they go way up in those early morning hours. But if we know that, then we can kind of almost create a personal contract with ourselves to one, hopefully not believe as many of the thoughts that we're having in those hours.
'cause they tend to. Not kind of false binaries and what have you, but at the second side of that, how can we minimize things that could be stressors? And one of those things can be the time because you're, you nailed it. That can be really stressful.
Oh my gosh, yes. You made me laugh too. 'cause it made, I totally forgot.
About this when you were telling me about the blackout. Yes. Uh, you blackout. So when I was like in my early twenties, and we would go out and do, and I, and I would just have the worst nights because of all the partying and drinking. So it's the worst sleep ever. So what I did was I literally put foil over my window.
Oh
yes. Oh, I've done it all. Same thing. Oh
man. I, I would wake. And it would be two or three in the afternoon, and I'd be like, uh oh. But then I was like realizing, well, I don't really don't, it doesn't matter. I don't have anything else going on, but I just, right,
right. What,
what happened here? Like, yes. And you literally thought it was still the middle of the night.
And when you think that, that's an exaggeration, you know, and I know you put foil up on your windows, you don't know what time it is. You have
no clue. Yes. No. Is magic. No. And I always tell people like, don't even worry. Like if it, it doesn't have to look cute, you know? I mean, granted, if you wanna over the long term Absolutely.
Yeah. Take action. But even especially like an Airbnb or you're traveling or whatever, just, I often travel with, um, blackout like very. Thick, almost like leaf bags, garbage bags, you know? Really? So they're totally opaque And they're flat. Yeah. And so you can just like tape 'em up if you're really desperate, it makes such a difference.
But yes, shout out to you Blockout. They are a fantastic sponsor. Actually, we're installing those, uh, today in our new place. But yeah, just to be able to, and it's so funny, I I, it's funny when I said prison lockdown to you and it like you
didn't know. Yeah,
yeah. Well, exactly. But, so one of my clients calls it prison lockdown because it's like total like sh.
Like kind of just this like dramatic sound and goes so blackout, so it's like you're completely in a like solitary confinement vibes or something. I'm so, oh yeah. So if anyone needs that, that is available. Okay. Anything we missed in your sleep environment at all?
No, but now that I, I pulled that website up as you were talking there so I could see it and it seems pretty affordable and yeah, it looks.
Nice and elegant too, on top of it, which is important, honestly. Yes, totally. So yeah, I think that's something that would be a big, big help because I do think that a lot of times that light, while it's nice to see in the morning, can also have a, an adverse effect on you mentally and obviously just.
Falling back asleep. It's not easy. And putting a shirt over your face or even the mask, even though they're soft and everything, it's still, I, I, I don't love it, you know? I just, I don't love it.
Know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. Well good. I'm excited for you. That can make such a difference. Yay.
Okay. Especially with the new place and in Arizona. Oh man, that sun is no joke. So my dad lives in Tucson, so I totally understand. Yeah. That. Cut out will be great. Okay. And then the last question is, so far today, what would you say has made the biggest change to your sleep game? Or said another way?
Biggest aha moment with managing your sleep.
Definitely not having the biggest like meals at night and I was doing data on like with uh. CGMs and seeing the glucose spike and checking that and seeing and watching things throughout the night. I, the, the data is the biggest key I think, for me. 'cause I'm such a data person and seeing the changes and watching what's going on.
Um, but I. I think rather obvious is just trying to go to bed earlier and, and not doing so much screen wise, read wise or stress wise. Yeah. I think limiting the amount of work stress and working out, which I'm struggling with some nights still. Yeah. Because I'm, you know, my days, but I, that it really all adds up.
And if I can think back. I think the best nights I sleep are the ones when I work out a lot earlier than the 7, 8, 9 o'clock nights at the gym, get home, shower, try to go to bed, type of thing. It just, it's not, it's not great. And so making those adjustments, or at least trying to be cognizant of it and making every effort you can to workout before the sun goes down, I think is really.
Ideal.
Yeah, actually I just did a newsletter on this topic because Whoop just came out with, um, a new big study that landed in nature and, you know, one of the top tier journals. So it got a lot of respect and they had just this tremendous amount of data. Speaking of data, because they have so many users.
So just something of like millions of nights of sleep or something culminated just some wild number, right. And so basically the takeaway was at least four hours before bed stopping our kind of major workout of any type. But then there was also an argument for six hours before bed for certain markers.
So sleep duration was one that seemed to start to have kind of a degradation at around six hours. And you know, some people being more sensitive, some people less sensitive. But then of course, this how strenuous. The workout is, so it's an interesting study so it can be worth like delving into for more, but six hours before bed was kind of the safest spot to help support.
I believe it was sleep onset and sleep duration. I think. Okay. Were the two ones that especially were hit with the six hour marks, so yeah, that makes sense. Either way, bare minimum four and then potentially to kind of cover all our bases around six if possible. For sure.
Definitely makes sense.
Yeah. Okay.
Well one, I just so acknowledge you for sharing. It's so beautiful because I feel like we have so many people coming on and they're just like, oh, I do everything right. And Yeah, we do not, no one does everything right. It's just not true. So it's. So helpful. And then together then we can kind of uncover what works, what doesn't work, and with more velocity shift to kind of keep improving.
So, so great. So how can people follow you, be a part of your, like sharing of your life and your discoveries and all of this?
So I keep it pretty simple on socialists just at Dylan Jamele everywhere, so it's very easy. I have dylan jamele.com as being finished right now. It's gonna be really awesome. Some in terms of the things that are offered there.
And then the Dylan Jelli podcast on Apple and the YouTube channels called Dylan Jelli biohacking. But if you Google me, everything pops up. There's no lack of info and things that I've put out and that are, it's, it's a constant thing that's ever growing. So I try to. Give everybody, you know, as much time as I can with questions and I appear at events and speak and do whatever I can to help and I'm spread thin, but I do my damnedest to help everybody and deliver a good solid, like trustworthy and honest message.
And you know, I am, I. I don't tell people what they want to hear, I tell 'em what they need to hear. So just understand that I'm not a sugar coder. I just want help. And by being honest, you're gonna get the help you need. And if anybody's just telling you what you want to hear, they really don't care about you.
So that's my thing. So hopefully it resonates.
Wow. I love that. And that's coming. Clearly, that's an established and effective coach because that is so true, what you're just saying, kind of the people pleasing things, and you know what people wanna hear, it's just you're not gonna get the results so really, really well.
Said, well done. And so appreciate the work that you're doing and all that you're sharing and I'm excited to hopefully meet you in real life at Biohacking conference coming up, uh, in a few weeks. So very excited. Absolutely. Excitingly yes, with a guarantee you can count on it. Yay. Awesome. Well looking forward to it.
Thanks again and definitely wanna kind of maybe do a round two and see how things progress once you do the sleep test and all of that. So more to come.
Let's do it.
Okay. You've been listening to The Sleep As A Skill Podcast, the top podcast for people who wanna take their sleep skills to the next level.
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