Dr. Donald (DC, MS, CSCS) works with high-output leaders and pros who want steady energy, sound sleep, and clear decision-making under pressure. Trained as a scientist and former decathlete, he runs a diagnostics-first process: measure first (labs, sleep architecture, HRV, cognitive speed, recovery), act second (light and rhythm, training, sleep, nutrition, travel), then track the deltas in plain numbers. He blends East + West methodologies - nature’s tools before prescriptions - and aligns each client’s MD, trainer, and nutrition so the plan runs as one roadmap. His practice is referral-led and confidentiality is standard. Current work includes select 1:1 advisories and a small, invite-only cohort for leaders who want a clear, sustainable system for health and performance. As a fruit of his labor, CORE Performance Labs is on the way - an evidence-led program built from his vast experience. If you’d like an early look, follow Dr. Donald on LinkedIn to stay in the loop.
Dr. Donald (DC, MS, CSCS) works with high-output leaders and pros who want steady energy, sound sleep, and clear decision-making under pressure. Trained as a scientist and former decathlete, he runs a diagnostics-first process: measure first (labs, sleep architecture, HRV, cognitive speed, recovery), act second (light and rhythm, training, sleep, nutrition, travel), then track the deltas in plain numbers. He blends East + West methodologies - nature’s tools before prescriptions - and aligns each client’s MD, trainer, and nutrition so the plan runs as one roadmap. His practice is referral-led and confidentiality is standard. Current work includes select 1:1 advisories and a small, invite-only cohort for leaders who want a clear, sustainable system for health and performance.
As a fruit of his labor, CORE Performance Labs is on the way - an evidence-led program built from his vast experience. If you’d like an early look, follow Dr. Donald on LinkedIn to stay in the loop.
SHOWNOTES:
😴 How circadian biology determines when your body is actually ready for sleep
😴 Why sleep timing matters more than sleep duration
😴 How chronotypes explain night owls, early birds, and persistent sleep struggles
😴 How elite performers protect sleep while competing late at night
😴 When sleep tracking helps—and when it creates anxiety
😴 Why the sleep environment often matters more than supplements
😴 How cortisol & melatonin and blood sugar disruptions ruin sleep quality
😴 Why glucose spikes at night trigger middle-of-the-night wake-ups
😴 How light exposure and body temperature control sleep depth
😴 Why sleep routines borrowed from others can backfire
😴 How morning routines quietly shape nighttime melatonin release
😴 Why personalized sleep strategies outperform one-size-fits-all advice
😴 And many more
SPONSORS:
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DISCLAIMER:
The information contained in this podcast, our website, newsletter, and the resources available for download are not intended to be medical or health advice and shall not be understood or construed as such. The information contained on these platforms is not a substitute for medical or health advice from a professional who is aware of the facts and circumstances of your individual situation.
Welcome to the Sleep As a Skill podcast. My name is Mollie Eastman. I am the founder of Sleep as A Skill, a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability, and behavioral change. As an ex sleep sufferer turned sleep course creator, I am on a mission to transform the way the world. Thinks about sleep.
Each week I'll be interviewing world-class experts, ranging from researchers, doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Ultimately, I believe that living a circadian aligned lifestyle is going to be one of the biggest trends in wellness, and I'm committed to keeping you up to date on all the things that you can do today.
To transform your circadian health and by extension, allowing you to sleep and live better than ever before.
Welcome back to the Sleep As A Skill podcast. Today's guest is Dr. Donald Shrump, Jr. And it is not Donald Trump. It is Donald Shrump, a high performance health specialist who works with elite athletes, executives, and cognitive performers at the highest levels. I can tell you I know some of his clientele list and it is.
Off the charts. What makes his work so impactful is that he doesn't chase trends, he solves problems. Most people don't yet know how to articulate Dr. Shrump's path into performance began as a marine biologist studying how environment and nutrition shape growth and resilience. Evolve through strength and conditioning, chiropractic medicine, advanced nutrition and sports science.
With over two decades of experience, he now builds precision, bio individualized protocols rooted in circadian biology, mitochondrial health. Nervous system optimization, genetics, and real time data. In this conversation, we explore why sleep is the foundation of elite performance, from light timing and chronotypes to travel recovery, blood sugar regulation, and why when you do something can matter more than what you do.
If you're ready to rethink sleep as a strategic advantage, you're in the right place. So we're gonna jump right into this episode, but first, a few words from our sponsors. As we head into the fall and vacation season winds down IEA time when late nights irregular eating habits and indulgence tend to become the norm.
It's time to get back on track with our health and of course our sleep. Just a quick, interesting fact about sleep to mention drinking more than two servings of alcohol per day for men and more than one serving per day for women can decrease sleep quality by. 39.2% a sleep Foundation survey reports, not even mentioning all the indulgent food and late night effects that often come along with it.
And as we know, sleep is the key to your body's rejuvenation and repair process. It controls hunger and weight loss hormones, boost energy levels, and. Countless other functions. A good night's sleep will improve your wellbeing much more than just about anything else I can possibly think of on the planet.
Uh, you know, I'm biased, but gotta say that. And sleep is your major to focus on as we head into the fall season and hopefully beyond. And that's why I recommend that if you're going to start taking some supplements on your sleep often, magnesium is a great place to begin, but not just any magnesium supplement, I do recommend getting the Magnesium Breakthrough by Bio Optimizers.
Magnesium Breakthrough contains. Seven forms of magnesium designed to help you fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up refreshed, which isn't that what we're all looking to do. The sleep benefits are really remarkable. I use it every night, and once your sleep is optimized, you'll find it much easier to tackle all the other major aspects of your health.
And trust me, it is a game changer. To test it out, visit mag breakthrough.com/sleep. Skill, you can enter code. Sleep is a skill for 10% off for any order. This special offer is only available@magbreakthrough.com slash sleep is a skill. I will also include this in the show notes as well. Welcome to the Sleep is a Skill podcast you are in for a treat.
We're having the the coach and doctor to some of the world's most elite athletes and high performers. And so much more. And also a friend of mine who has just provided so much wisdom and practical advice in my own life and in the lives of other people that I am personally associated with that are doing huge things in the world.
So Dr. Donald, thank you so much for taking the time to be here. Thank you so much for having. Yes, absolutely. Maybe we can start at the beginning of how did you become the doctor, the contact for some of these incredible high performers that are just achieving huge things in the world. And I'm not just saying that to say that, like I'm familiar with some of the names that you work with and everyone knows these people.
So how did this happen? Tell us a little backstory. Yeah, so, uh, I, I originally went to school to be a marine biologist and, and study how fish grow and develop with the food that they, uh, eat and the environment that they interact with. So, uh, basically toxic environments. And then you, you know, if you ate these fish, you know, could you get a risk of cancer from eating these fish?
Uh, I was also a division one athlete, a walk-on athlete, so I was trying to optimize my own health to be an athlete and be one of the best in the world. Uh, my head. Aspirations of being an Olympian and, um, I was in the decathlon, so I kind of nicknamed it 10 different ways to get hurt. So I was definitely into fitness and nutrition and technology to kind of help me optimize my performance.
Um, I had a Achilles tear injury that kind of ended my career. And, um, as I got into the real world and, uh, started training on my own, um, I got into, uh, personal training and, um, started a personal training business. Did that for a number of years, helped many, many athletes, thousands of, you know, general population, people with all kinds of things.
I went through the Check Institute, um, to learn holistic lifestyle coaching. Nutrition advanced training. And then ultimately, after being frustrated for many years, I went back to school at 34 years old to be, uh, my chiropractor. I get a master's degree in nutrition and, um, run the human performance lab at my school.
And this human performance lab had a bunch of equipment that wasn't being used, so I took it upon myself to read the instruction, to learn how to use the equipment, and then contacted. The, uh, inventor of this equipment and, uh, basically was his mentee for years and learned, you know, from one of the best in the world how to, you know, measure athleticism, how to measure, uh, different pathologies with people's gates and, you know, kind the beginnings of sports science because with my chiropractic degree I can look at blood work and, um, hormones and all different types of things.
So I got this comprehensive. And with my Check Institute background, holistic perspective on the human body and uh, I was getting a lot of great results and with the testing platforms that I was using. You know, these athletes kind of caught wind of what I was doing, and it was something pretty unique and special.
And I was able to help their teams of, uh, people that support them in making the decisions to make the most important thing, the most important thing. And we focus on those, you know, uh, most important things until they're checked off and just go to the next most important thing. And we had a lot of success, uh, with their increase in performance, uh, cognitive abilities.
Um, and everything. I kind of treat the athlete as a whole and not just like a piece of meat and, uh, and work with them in a pragmatic way. And the word just got out and I kept getting, you know, more and more, uh, people, uh, referring over to me. And yeah, I, I've had some, some world champions, some Olympians, um.
You know, if you can name the sport and the, the championship that they have, I've, I've had those types of athletes run through. Um, and again, along the way, you know, helping, you know, grandmas and grandpas and, you know, parents and, uh, you know, everybody in between. Absolutely. And yeah, it's not understated the number of the fields of performance that you're impacting.
And we knowingly have some mutual friends in common, including ones that chess, boxing, and just, you know, a bunch of things you might not even realize where sport you got 'em covered, you know? So it's like to all areas, including cognitive athletes and beyond. So. Really, really impactful. And one of the things that I was struck by when I first connected with you was also your appreciation and integration of circadian biology and other aspects of health that maybe are just potentially blind spots for many other wonderful and skilled practitioners, but might just not have that piece of the toolbox or toolkit or what have you included.
Is that something that you think of kind of bringing in the forefront when you're working with people? Yeah, I mean, again, my training was as a marine biologist and literally in the lab we were affecting the lights inside of this, you know, 30 foot by 12 foot deep aquarium to make fish and, uh. You know, we we're, we're influenced by light.
You know, our bodies are like solar panels, so that's how we kind of charge our bodies. So when I have athletes that are competing late at night, um, how do we optimize their performance for, you know, an 11 o'clock appearance on TV to compete for two or three hours and, um, you know, building in the circadian pattern patterns in the morning.
So this way they feel great at night. Um, so yeah. The genetic background that I'm definitely interested in is another aspect of it in terms of, you know, there's genetic sequences for people that are night owls versus ling birds. And, uh, if I'm gonna optimize their performance, I need to make sure they're training, eating, doing everything on the pattern that is right for the genetics.
And, you know, this is at the highest level. This is what you're thinking about, to get that extra 1%, uh, to be a little bit better than your competition because they're not thinking about that stuff. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, this, the, when you do something is almost more important than the what you do, uh, in the athletic world.
I agree more. Okay. So someone comes to you, and I know this is reductionistic a bit, and you're thinking about the whole picture. And since this is a Sleep as a Skill podcast, if someone's coming your way, an athlete or performer or what have you, and sleep is one of the clear things at the forefront that they're struggling with, how do you approach a case like that?
So, um, big into using technology. So we're always looking at the, whoops, the auras, catapults, whatever, uh, technology that they're using for sleep. Lots of times lately in the, in the past year or so, um, you know, either working with a sleep expert once they kind of come to me and we identify the sleep issue and, um, try to get into routines, you know, what they do in the morning, uh, dictates their nighttime and then figuring out what their, their nighttime kind of sleep hygiene is.
Uh, I try to get most people. You know, in the athletic world, and even, you know, some of the, uh, business people that I work with are traveling a lot, so I try to get their, you know, air quotes, uh, sleeping bag. So in that sleeping bag, if they're in a weird hotel, they've never been in, you know, do they have their own sheets, you know, their own pillow and things like that.
So it smells like, feels like home and they sleep better, you know, they're a little bit less anxious and, and can get to bed. So if somebody's coming to me and they have a sleep issue, um, or looking at data first, um, we're also looking at, uh, blood testing to see, you know, how much, um, you know, their hormones are out of black if cortisol is high at night.
Um, melatonin levels. So there's a number of things that I'm looking at. Uh, blood sugar. Um, to just see, you know, where the problem is. I really think of myself as a detective and I'm trying to, you know, get to the root cause of what the problem is and, uh, think about it through the lens of biophysics over biochemistry at first, because lots of times we can change the environments around somebody and, you know, get the chemistry to change, um, without playing a lot with food and supplements, and it's very powerful.
You wake up at the same time, you know, plus or minus 30 minutes. And, uh, how that affects people's sleep. I mean, it's very simple things and because I'm in the athletic world, you know, we're limited on what we can do because of, um, you know, testing and stuff like that. So like some of the things that are out there that could potentially help sleep, you know, professional athletes can't use.
Interesting. Yes. Okay. So when someone then is coming your way and you're getting that full picture and having the consistency on the fundamentals, like you were speaking to the need to really dial in that seven days a week piece, waking up at about the same time, plus or minus 30 minutes, getting a sense and an understanding, and a.
Expect for the fact that if you shift the environment a bit, then that can impact the people that you're working with and getting also your data in place. And so you're doing this lab work, is there any particular steps along the way that you find are outside of the normal, what people are usually testing for?
Like whether it's some of the tests that you are running on people that maybe other people don't think to include? Or potentially some of those environmental aspects of things that you have people bring in that other practitioners maybe don't have in mind? Yeah, I mean, mitochondrias, I'm always looking at the mitochondrial function of people because that's gonna dictate the amount of energy and we think about sleep.
It's that revitalization of energy. So I wanna see how well. Their mitochondrial working during their sleep. So, uh, there's certain tests, the MIT test that's looking at, uh, their, you know, mitochondrial, DNA, and there's some other testing out there that I use, uh, sequencing, um, to really look at the whole genome and get a whole picture of the, the person.
Um, and then in terms of, uh. You know, it's becoming more and more popular now, which I'm super happy about that, uh, you know, using EMF meters and things like that, you get, I mean, I was in a hotel in Europe and the, uh, wifi booster was behind the headboard. Ugh. So, you know, I unplugged it. Yeah, right. But I wouldn't have known that if the, um, you know, if I didn't bring my meter with me.
And, uh, and this is something that, you know, people can do. They're not super expensive. And my athletes, you know, they have their blue light blocking glasses. They have, um, you know. Um, you know, when they're sleeping at the room, they can't, like, you know, I try to get them to bring tape to like, cover things and, you know, tape window shades and do as much as they can to black out the room, wherever they're at.
Um, sleep masks. I mean, there's all types of little, you know, hacks that they can do to make their sleep space like home. And when they're at home, we try to get it, you know, dark and cold as they can tolerate and, uh, you know, and get things dialed in. Um, so yeah, that's really. You know, the, the things that I'm looking at in terms of in sleep.
Sure. And you mentioned the genetic testing. Is that something that you always include with all the people that you're working with, or is that something that you potentially would add in? It's not the first thing I go to unless they're, they're all in. If they're all in, we're, we're, we're running those tests and, um, they're.
Um, but it's not the first thing I go to. Um, you know, as a, a chiropractor, I'm always doing, like, history first gives a lot of information. There's, you know, incidences in the past that would kind of, you know, dictate, um, ale disturbance that was more, you know. They have kids or new pets, uh, things like that.
And, you know, you know, look at the, the simple things first before kind of diving into the genetics. But it's definitely something I, I use, you know, readily with my patients and, uh, very valuable information. Um, like, because like I said, you know, there are genetic, uh, components to like, should you go to bed, you know, super late, should you go to bed early?
Should you wake up early? You know, lots of athletes kinda get stuck in this. I need to wake up at 6:00 AM but they're a night out. And, you know, maybe they should, you know, get up and start training at 10:00 AM instead of 6:00 AM and vice versa. I know I am, uh, a morning person and you know, I'm that annoying person at five o'clock in the morning, I'm ready to go.
Yeah. And, uh, that's not everybody and, uh, you know, have to meet my athletes where they are and, uh, you know, adapt their program for that. So I know some teams that support athletes, you know, they have this kind of very rigorous schedule. We're gonna wake up at seven, we're gonna do this. And they don't understand it.
The athlete doesn't have the capacity to do that. Mm-hmm. And that's something that's, you know, just that aha moment. Uh, especially with some of the junior athletes that I work with that are, you know, yeah, they're trying to go to college, they're trying to be, you know, professionals and they're in puberty.
And we know when athletes are, you know, when people are in puberty, their whole um. You know, they all become, um, night owls. Yes. And, uh, it's really unfortunate that, uh, junior athletes you have wake up early and go to, you know, it's late in their, um, but it's that early component. So try to tell parents, you know, let your, let your kids sleep in a little bit if they're a.
Young athletes, you know, when is a brain fully developed in a, in a man, you know, 25, 26 years old. So they, they still need that component until they get their true adult chronotype. And, uh, I don't think people are thinking about that. It's just like, wake up and grind. Right? And, uh, I'm trying to like, optimize things so, you know.
Maybe you do need to wake up and grind, but maybe you need to wake up a little later and And get your work in. Yeah. And I so appreciate that too because I know you and I have both discussed some of these conversations in this world of kind of quant biology, circadian rhythm and treatment, et cetera. And sometimes we'll see more of this kind of trying to put everyone into the rhythms of nature.
So the idea that, okay, well everyone should wake up with the sun. Because that would be a blueprint that we could follow, and presumably there was likely some connection to that in the past. And so we should just kind of blanket bring everyone back into that. And yet, one of the things, certainly, you know, I work with so many high stakes poker players and they're anything but connected to the rhythm of the nature most of the time.
So they're often kind of shift workers, if you will, and leaning very late. So how to kind of have that. Happy medium and be informed by those rhythms of nature, but also respect both some of what they're up against of peak performance at, you know, very late hours and some of this biological piece. So how do you kind of make sense of all that?
Is it that this is part of what there needs to be is more nuance for each individual? I mean, I'm a big proponent of, you know, getting in the sun in the morning. It just, you know, my morning sun is right when it's, you know, on the coming up and somebody else's a night owl, you know, it's a few hours mean that know.
Plus light coming into their eyes and onto their skin is that activation that we need for their body. And uh, I mean, I truly believe if we go back to like tribal times, there were some people that stayed up late to watch the people that were sleeping and then Yeah. You know, the early birds were up early to like take over the shift.
Yeah. And, uh, I kind of believe in, you know, I minored in anthropology in, uh, undergrad. And, uh, you know, something that's discussed is like, that's how we've survived the Night from Predator. So, yes, I, I still think that's true and, and the fact that we could do genetic tests and it's right there, we can see it right there.
Yeah. Um, so to me, like, yes, you're still following the, the natural circadian patterns of the sun, but, you know, it's just shifted a little bit and, um, yeah. You know, that's, it's so powerful to just, you know, get the, get nature into most people's lives.
Singers and songwriters that, you know, put on shows and stuff at night and they're up late and I really try to get them to. Know, bank in, you know, they're early birds, but have to, you know, put on a show at night or, uh, athletes need to compete at night. Let's, let's bank the, the prime hours. Yeah. And you know, you can get away with, uh, one or two nights of bad sleep or less optimal sleep to do your performance.
And, you know, we know that performance doesn't drop too much. If you have, you know, a bank account goal of good sleep, um, you're not in that much sleep debt going into these things. And, uh, that's kind of how I mitigate. You know, competition, um, or shows and things like that for my patients. Um, and then, you know, if we can stack in some other things that we know that are backed by science, like, you know, maybe a little bit higher dose grade team.
Know things like that to keep energy levels up and they can go through those, those late nights. Absolutely. No, I so appreciate you kind of walking us through that. And how about, I know you've mentioned Haplotypes, if, if this might be a new concept for some listeners of how that could play a role in their sleep and health.
Yeah, so, you know, inside of our body people think of DNA.
Mitochondrial DNA. So this, uh, mitochondrial DNA has changed over time. If we think about, if we started near the equator, the mitochondria have actually changed as you migrated away from the equator, north or west, uh, east, you know, all over the world from, uh, you know, generations and generations. And we. Uh, types of haplotype.
So, um, you know, I know for me, I'm a k haplotype, so, um, my mitochondria, the way the proteins that are, you know, making energy in my body, they're, they're pretty, um, efficient at burning fat. And, um, my body functions a little bit differently than somebody that's, uh, you know, maybe an L haplotype, you know.
Genetic lineage didn't move very far from the equator. Um, you know, they can handle carbs better and uh, you know, we call this like coupled versus uncoupled haplotype. So the uncoupled haplotype are more northern descent. The coupled haplotype are more, um, centralized equatorial. And, uh, you know, there's a whole nutrition, um, component to it in terms of the macronutrients that you need.
Um, one of the, you know, key things that I really, you know, believe to be true and it's supported by the science is these uncoupled happo types. Burn through more energy, they're less efficient, and that inefficiency actually creates heat, which kind of makes sense. They've migrated from the equator north to colder places, and as their body's burning fat, it creates a little bit of, uh, extra heat so they can stay.
Warm when it's cold. Sure. And the opposite is true with couple, uh, haplotype. Like when I go south to tropical places, I'm hot because I'm uncoupled and I'm not in my you good environment. Like it's winter here in New Jersey and, you know, I'm breaking through the ice into my cold plunge and feeling great.
Yeah. And uh, you know, these are the types of things that I'm looking at. You know, does somebody even qualify for cold plunge? Um, or should I cook them in? So more like, I try to do so a few times a week and I, you know, can't. Handle super high temperatures, but I know some of my athletes, they're 190 200 degrees.
No problem. Yeah, because they literally have the equipment in their bodies to regulate heat better than I do, but they can't handle the cold, so you know, it's a plus or minus to both ends of it. Okay. That's very interesting. And my understanding is when you work with someone, ideally they're coming in to work with you and you're going through a whole battery of tests, both kind of.
Dynamic tests to test cognition kind of performance based tests. My understanding that there's a whole litany of tests, uh, you can correct me if I'm wrong there. And so with all this is then at the end of that, is that kind of getting this rundown almost of, all right, so for you, from what we're seeing, sauna, lean into that.
Maybe not so much cold pledge. Like, does it look like that of kind of like a rundown of sort of this bio individualized protocols or is that something that you kind of develop as you go, as you get more information? How do we think about that? It's kind of both. Because, you know, when, when somebody comes in, you know, the ideal situation is we're getting all the blood work and hormones, uh, genetic tests done beforehand.
Yeah. And then when they come in, uh, we're measuring their brain speed, uh, you know, gait analysis. You know, orthopedic, their full body orthopedic exam and, uh, really like dialing in what's going on with their bodies from a physical component. And, you know, based on all the data that's coming in, uh, I kind of say I'm, you know, painting by numbers.
So the more numbers that I have, the clear the picture that I have. And so sometimes somebody's redox is low. Not able, a lot of energy. So the protocol that I wanna get them to six months or two a year from now may look completely different than when they're starting. So, you know, in the beginning they may not be doing cold plunge, they may be doing more sauna and eventually get them into cold plunge.
But it's, you know, based on their DNA and their lab tests and. Um, you know, I've seen too many times people buy a $6,000 cold plunge and they never use it. So I try to be pragmatic with them. Like, well start with just ending your shower with cold. Do that for a couple months before you make the investment.
Um, and, and you know, to me it's, it's very tailored to. Their chronotype. So like, you know, what time of day are they gonna do each thing? And, you know, with their lifestyle. So, you know, if they have, um, training or work, you know, at these times of days. Um, you know, then we're working around, you know, the, the schedule to kind of fit it all in and, uh, constantly like, uh, optimizing, you know, trying to get it just a little bit better, a little bit better.
Uh, you know, basically each quarter when I'm working with somebody. Oh, interesting. Really cool. Okay, well, one thing that might be an interesting thing to dive into is that every person that we bring on the podcast, we always ask them four questions around how they're managing their own sleep. So maybe we could dip into that.
And then as you're sharing some of this, if you have like callouts that, okay, I do this and. This might, you know, be the exact opposite for someone that's dealing with X, Y, Z or whatever. Like if there's any kind of asterisk Yeah. Mention since I love this thoughtfulness, that it's not just like, okay, everyone has the same thing and it's a blanket, you know, protocol sounds like it's, you know, would be customized for you.
And then we might be able to glean some information based on what we see with you. Does that sound good? Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah. So, um, I had some sleep issues when I was in graduate school because Sure. I had, uh, two businesses running. Mm, yeah. Um, I was married, we had a young family started and, uh, commuting and, uh, you know, taking a doctorate degree and a master's degree at the same time.
So I was sleeping three or four hours a night trying to remember everything that I was studying. And, uh, after graduate school was done, I mean, it did very well in school and, and all that was great, but when I was done, I was still like stuck in that pattern. So I had to, you know, fix my sleep and, uh, and develop like a new way of doing things.
And to me, like, um, the aura ring was super helpful for me. With that, just kind of understanding how bad is bad and, um, you know. Whether the data is, you know, hundred percent perfect. I wasn't really worried about that. I was just trying to have a tool to experiment with it. So if I did this, here's an effect.
And, uh, that, that really helped my sleep. Um, I've always been kind of. The into since I, you know, started listening to Dr. Jack Cruz like in 2012 or when? Whenever he started. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I was a surfer, you know, in New Jersey, so it orders 30 something degrees in the wintertime when there's good waves and kind of doing that cold thermogenesis to, to have fun surfing.
And whenever I did that, I was knocked out. I had great sleep. So, uh, you know, I kind of plunging and very, you know. Enamored by like the changes that it was having to bulk my sleep, uh, my hormones, you know, everything. And I knew that I had the DNA to really benefit from it. Mm-hmm. Um, so that is, you know, my, my go-to for me, uh, that is not the go-to for, you know, some of the patients that I work with at all.
Like, they don't even qualify to do cold plunge like I wanna do cold plunge. And we look at their haplotype, we're like, no, let's do sauna. Hmm. And, uh, you know, and I get them on sauna. I mean, I know there's benefits to sauna for me, and I always think about how I can manipulate my body temperature, that hormetic stress.
Yeah. So I do cold plunges in the morning and then saunas, you know, closer to bedtime. Sure. Um. I'm a bigger person, you know, six four, you know, 230 pounds. So once I do get hot, it takes me a long time to cool down. So I kind of messed up and did it too close to bed and have to pull it back farther and farther because I wasn't, my body temperature wasn't dropping and wasn't getting that melatonin release that I was shooting for.
So these are kind of the, the tips that people need to understand, like you have to, you know, trial and error. And to me it's always gonna have something to measure what you're doing. Um, I mean, subjective is fine, but I like the numbers. So. Um, yeah, but I, I work with people with, you know, whoop and, you know, other things to, to look at their sleep and, um, you know, try to dial it in as much as we can.
Do you have any cases where you found it that you wanna abstain from tracking with that individual? Have you had cases like that, or almost always Finding no more information is going to help us in kind of finding what's working, what's not working. Oh yeah, definitely have people that are a little bit obsessive compulsive, and having those numbers gives them anxiety, especially with the athletes.
Like I, I want the, you know, wearable to actually go to the coach, not to the athletes. Oh, yes. Yeah. So this way the coach knows what to do and the athlete's just like, okay, tell me what to do, coach. Um, because athletes, if they, you know, you know, they're in a grand Slam final and they wake up and they're in the red.
They don't need to know that they can still win and be in the red. Um, so I want the team to know that they're in the red on their whoop, and you know, they're gonna do things to prop them up for that day. So, yeah. Yeah, there's definitely times and instances where, you know, put that stuff away. You know, if I'm on vacation, I don't track anything, I just, I'm on vacation.
Um, I love that. And, you know, with the emf, because I, I'm in airplane mode all the time with my ring. I'm sensitive to that stuff. Not everybody is. So if somebody is sensitive to that, I mean, I had somebody put on a, a wearable, and I mean, they were a different person. Like they're, they're so anxious and so, you know, reactive to that, that wifi signal and, uh, we, we, we got rid of it and we just went to like, journaling and, you know, kind of the old fashioned paper, you know, on a scale of one to 10, how was my sleep?
You know? Yes. You know, things like that. Okay. I love that kind of customization. That's great. Well, perfect. Well, this is great. You already gave us kind of a nice overview, and so the first question that we ask everyone is, what does your nightly sleep routine look like right now? And I'm sure it's shifted and changed over the years, and maybe it looks different when you travel, but you know, does anything maybe noteworthy that might be helpful for people?
I mean, we typically, you know, I have, uh, two young boys and my wife, uh, we try to eat dinner earlier. Uh, and we, I try to change that with the season. So here in New Jersey, like the sun is down at 4 30, 5 o'clock, so I'm trying to eat, you know, close to that as possible, if not earlier. And, um, you know, if you think about the, you know, stopping drinking a few hours before bed, you know, in my house.
Imagine much just like your house. Uh, all the lights are red at night, so if you drive past our house, it looks a little weird. But Uhhuh, my, my boys are used to it. Yeah. And, um, you know, I'm constantly turning any of the other kind white lights off at night, uh, to make things as dark as possible. And, uh, I mean, we had, uh, a puppy, so, uh, you know, just last night.
Being a puppy. So it kind of disrupted my sleep. So I kind of used my own little biohacks to feel good today because I knew I didn't have great sleep. And uh, and I think more people need to understand that you know, you're gonna have good days and you're gonna have bad days. And if you have, uh, a plan A or plan A is everything works.
And plan B is, if you know my sleep isn't that good, then I could do A, B, and C. So I know what works for me and I try to educate people that I work with as to what that plan B and maybe even plan C are. When they don't have good sleep. So important. And you mentioned, like, I think you, uh, touched on creatine and certain things.
Are there certain stacks that you tend to always bring out on those days when we're not getting the best sleep or we're traveling or a big event is coming up or for your athletes, like the Olympics or something? Yeah, I mean the, uh, time shifter app is a, a huge, you know, benefit for everybody. If you're switching time zone time zones, then you know, look for that app to help you kind of get ready for it.
Yeah. And uh, you could wake up in the time zone feeling great and a lot of athletes and, you know, business people, you know, if they have a big board meeting or something like that, they need to wake up feeling great. Mm-hmm. Um, and you know, I don't like the use of melatonin that much, but in those instances, you're going from the US to, you know, Hong Kong.
Sure. Uh, let's use some melatonin to get you on track and get normal schedule. Yeah, those are the types of things that I'm really, you know, thinking about for, um, travel and, you know, China, you know, we tend to go kind of north to south, not too much east to west. I'm not very good changes. But, uh, but when I do, I use that time shifter app and it's really helpful.
Oh, me too. It's makes such a difference. I was actually just at a conference with Dr. Michael Bruce, America's sleep doctor and uh, yeah, he is been connected with time shifter for many years and so we just had a whole table of people kind of going to town on. You gotta get the time shift wrap. It's. So good.
Some people are just coming back from Japan and we're like struggling and taking for birol and all these different things to try to get through the day. Like, this is what you need. So good. So appreciate that. Okay. Anything else we missed in your nightly sleep routine? I mean, for before we kind of went all in with the red lights around the house, we were wearing the, uh, blue blocking glasses, so that may be like a, a step one.
Try the blue blocking glasses if you feel, you know, within 30 minutes you're getting sleepy. They're working and then, uh, you can kind of make the investment to, you know, change the lighting in your, in your house. Um, I mean, the way our lighting in our house is we have, you know, um, you know, incandescent lights during the day and then we have these red lights for at night and just, you know, different toggling of the switch.
And, uh, it's pretty easy. So, you know, if you're gonna make these changes around your home, make them easy. And, uh, there's so many options out there now. Uh, if you think about five or 10 years ago, there were no options. So, uh, you know, these are the things that, uh, are very helpful. Um, I, I guess one of the other things for me personally, like, um, I react very well, make glycine.
So if I'm a little anxious or revved up. Um, my boys have sports at night, so sometimes I'm into the competition and, um, a little revved up from the basketball game or something like that. And, you know, I'll take some glycine and it kind of calms me down and I go through that whole red light and then, you know, to bed and, and relax and pass out.
That's so good to have some of those known things that can make that difference. We're all gonna deal with that at some point. And I think you had mentioned, we were chatting beforehand that magnesium is another go-to for you commonly. Yeah. I mean, most people are magnesium deficient. Yeah. Um, I know from all the testing on myself, I run very magnesium deficient and I try to eat as much, you know, food dense, you know, things as possible that have magnesium in it.
Uh, magnesium breakthroughs because it has all the different forms of magnesium that we need, you know, for your muscles, for your nerves to help you sleep. Mm-hmm. And, uh, it's a huge, you know, benefit for a lot of people. Uh, uh, I think of, um, the guy's name that said it a long time ago, but jerk just eat real food.
So I try to advocate, just eat real food. But, you know, sometimes you can eat, you know, 60 oysters a day and you know, your magnesium levels still don't go up. And then you get the supplement and your magnesium levels come up and you know, it, it know helps people a lot. So magnesium, you know, if we think of the different forms people need, um, that's a, a simple solution that from yes.
I so appreciate that. Shout out to our by optimizer sponsor. I don't take a ton of supplements for night over the years, but one of the ones that I have taken is, is that consistently and just for performance in general and health and wellbeing, so love that you kind of called that out and pretty relatively strong safety profile.
And so it's just, you know, so many people are what can I take for sleep? And of course, going to your ethos. The testing to know exactly what each person is dealing with and then supplementing accordingly. And at the same time, this could be one of those things that might be a blanket approach for a number of people.
There's always caveats. There's always specifics, but I appreciate you sharing that. That's great. Great. Okay. Anything else we missed for nightly sleep routine, or did that pretty much cover? I guess one of the most important things is, you know, the, the sleep hygiene routine. Yeah. Like, uh, most people don't know how much time it takes, and to me, like you first have to allocate the time.
Yeah. So if it takes you 30 minutes to wind down, are you giving yourself 30 minutes to wind down? Mm-hmm. Um, so to me, like identify, you know, what works for you and then make sure you block that time out because you know, some people are on their computers trying to get work done. And then trying to go to bed and they didn't put in that time.
And uh, and then people get anxious that, you know, I didn't fall asleep at nine 30 like I'm supposed to. Yeah. Because they didn't block it like that time in. So to me, like, you know, sometimes to just block the time in, you know, watch tv, something funny just to relax, you know, I don't want the blue light on you, but like at least you're blocking the time to do something to relax before we get into all these like, biohacking things.
And you know, you know, go, you know, I always think of like a crawl, walk, run approach and that may be your crawl. I need this much time. I have to stop doing what I'm doing and, you know, start doing something else to relax. And, uh, it could be meditation, it could be some yoga. I mean, I have some people that need to do a little bit of exercise to relax, you know, we need to get them moving.
Yeah. Just a little bit because they, you know, they literally just got off the computer. Okay, I'm gonna go to bed. But no dude, some, you know, cal exercises, you know, raise their body temperature up just a little bit so it can drop again, is helpful. So these are some of the things. And you need to identify what you need.
You know, if it works for you, then make it into a habit each night. Oh, I like that. I remember in one of our conversations a while back, you were mentioning, and to your point, it's like. So many of us will skip over the fundamentals and then wanna jump right to the biohacks and all the things in this next piece.
Assuming that we're doing the fundamentals first, I think you had touched on PM MF mats. Any thoughts on something like that, or is that not have a place as much in how you think about winding down for people? Yeah, I'm big on your environment, so if you're in. City or somewhere where there's a lot of, you know, non MF that you're dealing with that is a, you know, good solution.
But if you're, you know, out in the suburbs or in the country, then I don't know if there's that much benefit because you're not displacing, you know, as much MF as you would be like New York City. Um, so that's just what I've found. Like when people have tried the mats in, um, you know, um, out on a farm, like I don't really feel any different.
You know, one person at a time and see if it works for them. Okay, that's great. And it's my understanding that you've done taken some time to kind of set up your sleep environment so that you're, you know, minimal on EMFs and other source points. Total blackout. Anything we missed there? Oh no. Yeah, we have, you know, blackout curtains in every room and, uh, nice and cold.
I mean, our, when people stay over our house, they'll look freezing because it's, you know, yes. Probably 58 to 60 degrees. We like, get really cold and bundle up with blanket that's we need to do. Yeah, I mean, we have weighted blankets and, um, you know, my, my one son is pretty sensitive to non-native e EMF stuff, so we made sure we got, um, I mean we're doing the EMF testing and, uh, his fish tank that he had in the room.
Just the motor from that was like, you know, the, you know, it was like a six foot radius around that thing. Oh, wow. Which was inside of where his bed was. So we got the sleep, the fishing, you know, the fish tank out. Mm-hmm. And the sleep got better. Um, so to me, like, you know, the measuring for me was very important to go through everything.
Yeah. Um, and then we also had the bio geometry in all of our rooms, so, um. You know, that, uh, BG three, um, energy to kind of help cancel everything else out. Oh, can you say more about that too, in case people aren't as familiar? Yeah. So bio geometry is more on the, uh, you know, if we think of like east, west things.
Mm-hmm. Um, it's more on, you know. Good energy. And if you think of like bad energy as static, this helps, uh, get rid of some of that static energy around you. Uh, some people can feel this, some people can't feel it. Um, I'm kind of sensitive to these things. So, uh, I notice when I'm wearing a, you know, uh, a bio geometry meall in or have the cube in the house, I bring the cube with me.
We're traveling places. Um, and to me, some people don't feel anything from it, so it's, it's not, you know, worth it. But if some people that are EMF sensitive, it could be something to look into. There's plenty of podcasts out there with, um, Dr. Abraham and, um, his PhD has done all these, uh, scientific studies on it.
So it's study, uh, it's supported by science and, um, used around the world. So it's a pretty interesting, you know, technology that's out there that's rooted in like 5,000 year old, um, ideas that have now been backed with science. Awesome. So appreciate that. Okay. And then on the flip side of your nights, what might we see in your mornings with the idea that how we start our day could impact our sleep?
Oh, so. I am a early bird, so I'm up early and, um, you know, right now because of New Jersey doesn't have any UVB, um, I'm trying to, you know, get, uh, red lights and uh, get out in the sun and then get in the cold lunch and then eat all within that first hour, uh, wake. And, um, I'm pretty rigorous about my morning routine.
It kind of sets my day. Um, yeah, I get into journaling and stuff like that after. And, um, then it's off to like, you know, fatherly things, get the kids ready for school and, and all that stuff. So, uh, my morning routine is, is pretty, um, stable and that's what helps me, you know, have stability at night and, uh.
And I am a, an early bird. I know that genetically. So that's, that's just something that, that I'm into. Um, if I'm traveling, I have a, uh, little travel light, so, um, sometimes, you know, with time zone changing and, and stuff like that. Uh, so I have this portable 10,000 L light that's also a red light, so I'll do red light.
White, uh, just to kind of get my body going and on the, uh, time zone that I need to be on. And, uh, it's, I find that super helpful. And uh, it also works as like a battery pack to charge your phone, which is really cool. Ah, very cool. So is there a particular brand that you like for that or. Yeah, I think it's the chroma skylight portal mini or something like that.
Oh, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very cool. Love that stuff. Amazing. Okay. So very, I love that consistency and commitment to that morning routine. A lot of those things happening it sounds like within the first hour. So are you finding, 'cause a lot of people often ask too, okay, well what about for, I'm a super early bird and I get up before the sunrise.
Is that happening for you? And if so, how are you dealing with that? Yeah, so right, right now I, I'm up the before sun. Um, so that's why I'm starting with the red light. And then, then I kind of transition, the sun comes up and then I'm outside in the cold getting the, the natural sunlight. Um, if somebody is like very early, um, I try to go from red to white.
So again, starting with, um, you know, maybe 10 minutes of red light therapy and then going into another 10 minutes of, uh, 10,000 lux or more white light therapy. Um. Again, that's, they make some great white, they do kind of treatment for that stuff. Um, and then they can start their day. Cool. Big into kind of getting the leptin hormone balanced in the morning with people, you know?
Yeah. Whether you're an early bird or night owls or trying to get, you know, the, the process started, you know, whether it's the first hour or the first, you know, three hours, that one to three hour window dependent on your genetics. I love that. You mentioned leptin too. Are you someone that has those very clear ranges that you're after for people in the same way, like a.
Dr. Courtney Hunt, or certain people will say like, you know, four to 10 as like their goal across the board? Or do you find different ranges that you're shooting for with people? I mean, it depends for me on, you know, gender and age and, um, gender and age. Basically the two things that, those, those levels may be a little bit, you know, tighter ranges, but it's basically the same ranges.
Sure, sure, sure. Great. Very cool. Yeah, it's, it's so interesting that not everyone is even bringing leptin into the conversation and, and to have that there been prevalent just can make such a difference. So Good. Yeah. And if they, you know, think of people when they're, you know, the new year starting and most people are getting like annual physicals and or maybe taking their health into the new year.
Sure. Um, I think it's like a 30 or $40 test for leptin just to add it on to your, your normal blood work. It's hugely beneficial to know what the numbers are. Oh, love that. And, uh, it's, it's not a super expensive thing. Some of the things, you know, out there are very expensive, thousands of dollars. Yes, yes.
Love that. When it's something that can be accessible and that you just kind of make a part of your kind of health stack, so it's really great. Okay, and then this third one we might have already touched on, and I think I better jumping on on this, but what might we see in your nightstand or in your sleep environment?
I mean, nightstand. Not much. Probably a book. Yeah, a book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Minimalism for the win. Yes. And reading Dr. Bruce's new book. Uh, so that's what I'm into right now. Small world. Oh, that's great. That is a small world. Well, I'm talking to him actually later on today, so Yes. Maybe they'll have to, you know, keep this going.
That's very cool. Okay. And I, we've seen that too for so many people that. Really have that workability with their sleep where so commonly it is quite minimal. There's not, it's funny, there's still been some people on the podcast that say, you know, I'm still, I'm still working on my sleep. I still struggle with it at different times.
And then you hear what's on their nightstand, it's often like 27 things, you know? Oh yeah. Right. And is that something you see with, um, athletes like really trying to seek out, or, or not even just athletes, but some of the people you work with looking for that fix that's external from them when it comes to sleep?
I mean.
If you, you know, take an e MF meter while your phone is charging. Yeah. Um, it's off the charts and then when it's not charging, it's low and normal and you mm-hmm. Like, they could be charging their Apple watch their phone, their iPad right next to their head. Like, okay, just put that downstairs. Like, have a regular alarm clock.
Or even the alarm clock that have the lights that slowly wake you up, you know, with, with the sun, the blackout. Yeah. If you got the, the blackout shade, you're not getting that natural sunlight to wake you up. Um, so, you know, yeah. I mean, I, I want less in the bedroom and, uh, and not more. So, you know, make it as minimal as you can.
I feel like that too, because you've made the great points too about, I think so many of us don't realize how much is off, but just by simply plugging something in right near you, you know, whether you get all these could be the fanciest lamps and all these great things, and yet. They could be problematic, just purely because it's getting that unnecessary energy and EMFs that we don't necessarily want.
Is that something you do in hotels too, where you're like unplugging things? Yeah, I mean, I have a, um, kind of a funny story. One of our clients, you know, they built a new house and their son was in the, one of the rooms. And when we tested the EMF in that room. Uh, wall was where like all the electrical was coming through for the, the next floor up, right?
So, wow. Um, his headboard was right there and, you know, his whoop was in the red for no reason. Like everything was normal other than in the new room. And, uh, we just switched where his bed was in the room and in the green in one day. It was just like, it makes that much of a difference to know, like the electrical components of your room.
You know, there's building biologists that have, you know, gizmos, you can hit a button, a remote control button, and all the power that's not needed in your house can turn off. Um, which is really, you know, interesting and, um, you know, for some people that are EMF sensitive, that's something that they should really consider is it makes a world of difference.
Oh, so good. Have you had many people go in the direction of like, if there's certain things that they can avoid in a space or they in apartments or whatever, go in the direction of the EMF canopies, or do you feel like, eh, not a win there? Uh, I haven't had much success with the EMF canopies. Um, I've had a, you know, some people actually benefit from the like, uh, EMF blocking blankets and things like that.
Mm-hmm. So, you know, that seems to help. I mean, I have this. EMF blocking, uh, kind of poncho thing that I wear on airplanes. Um, and I feel a difference with that. So, ah, any brands for that one that you like? I don't, I got it so many years ago, I don't even remember. Oh, okay. Yeah, I just wanted like the bigger, more popular ones.
The bigger ones. Sure, sure, sure. Like maybe Lamb or Well Now Haven, some of those. Okay, cool. Yep. So that's kind of cover some of the space things that we might see in your environment. And then how about for so far to date, what would you say has made the biggest change for you in the management of your sleep?
Or said another way? Maybe biggest aha moment in managing your sleep. In the last year, I've been very much into redox and metabolism. Mm-hmm. And um, the more that I'm kind of understanding the metabolism and the pattern of my own, you know, metabolism, uh, when I got the glucose monitor, the levels, glucose monitor.
Yeah. And really like. One, seeing how cold plunge drops my blood sugar and puts me in like a good spot. I was like, oh, that's beneficial. That's cool, you know, insight. Yeah. And then, um, you know how. Close to bedtime or how far away from bedtime? Um, I need to stop eating or else my blood sugar is, you know, elevated while I'm sleeping.
And you know, lots of times for me when I hear, especially men waking up in the middle of the night to pee and they think it's, you know, prostate or something like that and mm-hmm we get the glucose monda, I was like, no, it's just you ate right before you fell asleep and your blood sugar is spiking around that time And mm-hmm.
Once we got rid of that blood sugar spike, they stopped having to wake up to beat. And, uh, that to me is like a big aha moment for dozens of people that I've worked with in the, in the last year that just like, oh, okay, I got it. And like, you know, we, I tell people this, like, you know, three hours, four hours before bed, stop eating.
But once they get the data coming in, they're like, oh, I see. And, um, you know, a glass of wine and, you know, kind of sleep is, and blood sugar is up and sleep is kind of ruined. And they, and they see that data. It's very insightful. So even like one month experiment with one of those things, um, is very eye-opening for a lot of people.
So good. Yeah, that can make such a huge difference. I love how you're touching. I just did my newsletter on that, uh, just the other day about this misattribution error that so many people can make. 'cause it's just like, ugh, I gotta move back the time I have my water or drink or whatever and thinking, and, you know.
Kudos to the commitment in trying to be a bit of a detective, and yet it can, maybe that's maybe one step. And then if we go further, then we see, oh, that was just, that happened to be the case that you haven't slept or you haven't gone to the bathroom in hours and hours. So when you do wake up, yeah, you could go pee, but also there can be at a source.
Sleep apnea, sleep disorders, very common. Like you've mentioned, the glucose instability aspect of things. Just about every company over the years that we've had on the podcast have pointed to that time and time again, levels, signals, very. Nutri sense. All of these companies would say exactly that. That they're just seeing time and time again, and we would see the same thing.
So glad you pointed to that and the difference that that can make and the call up for you, in your case with the cold plunging, to kind of start your day with that added support. Just seeing all that, those patterns can make such a difference. It's great. But the, the experiment that I did, because I, you know, when I started with this, I was doing all kinds of crazy experiments, was Sure.
Our, our, our kids had won a baseball game and we took them out to ice cream and then Yeah. Watching the blood sugar go up and I'm like, Ooh, that's cold plunge. And then, you know, it was, you know, uh, one 15 or something like that and then dropped down into the eighties. I was like, there we go. And, uh, you know, and, you know, so to me it wasn't the morning routine, it was just the, the experiment.
But like, you know, that was kind of proof. You know, point that like there is huge benefits for my haplotype that, you know, it's good for my blood sugar regulation. I love that. And actually, it's just making me think of your daily lineup since you've been thoughtful about the ordering of all this. So now you have, for you the cold plunge in the morning, where do you tend to put your workout exercise?
Or does it, is it dynamic? Does that shift, I'm just curious as far as, is that far, far after the cold plunging and then the evening sauna? No. Found, I have like kind of peak body awareness around one to two o'clock. I've had a lot of injuries over the, in terms mylon days and surgeries and broken bones and stuff, so I.
Fine motor control. So if I work out in the morning, I could do kind of zone two, don't have to think about it very much, you know, stuff. But if I'm doing resistance training, I try to do it more one to two o'clock and uh, that's kind of my peak spot for me. Um, neat. But that's how I kind of, you know, think about things because I, I wanna control the kettlebell or whatever I'm using.
Oh, very cool. Okay. So neat. Awesome. Okay, well I so appreciate you sharing all this information. And I know we're just, you know, scratching the surface of your immense knowledge and, and your ability to build some of these protocols for some of these top performers in various industries or fields. And so if someone's, you know, listening and saying, oh my gosh, I need to work with this person, learn more about this, be a part of his world, all of those things, how could they do that?
I guess the best place to get ahold of me is on LinkedIn and you know, so, uh, follow me on LinkedIn direct message me, and, uh, you know, we can set up a discovery call and I'm somebody that I can, uh, if somebody wants my help, then I can help them and I'm very open and, uh, to, you know, having conversations and pointing people in the right directions because I know what I know.
And I also know people that are world class in what they do, and lots of times it's just pointing people to who they need to go to. Sure. So good. Which is very wise in and of itself, so amazing. Okay, well, we'll be sure to get that information in our show notes too, so that people can take those actions, take those steps.
And where are you located to for anyone listening in case they wanna be able to have that live, you know, hands-on option. Yes. So we're in Alpine, New Jersey about 20 or 30 minutes outside of New York City. Cool. Okay. Totally very accessible. And I know from others that I'm connected with that have gone through your processes, it's in extensive the things that then you have them go through.
Right? Like just really fascinating. The number of different ways that you can look at what's working, what's not working for them. That is very rare. We're not seeing that for a lot of individuals or practitioners to go through those steps. So it's amazing. I try to leave no stone unturned and, uh, and get to the root calls we need more.
Like you. I love it. Uh, well thank you Dr. Donnell. I really appreciate you taking the time and then looking forward to continuing to follow your journey. I know you're launching some new things and also, I don't know if we touched on that. If you wanna share real quick. So starting in the next couple weeks, I'll be, uh, putting out more content on LinkedIn and then we're starting a new company called Core.
Performance labs. So the core. Stands for cognitive, orthopedic, redox, and environment. And those are our pillars of how we're building health and performance with, uh, people. So whether you're an athlete or an executive or you know, just a health-minded person trying to optimize, you know, their longevity, uh, we have these pillars for people to kind of, uh, you know, instill and build their health over their like.
So good. Awesome. Well, doing the Lord's work, as they say. So keep it up my friend, and appreciate you taking the time. You've been listening to The Sleep As a Skill podcast, the top podcast for people who wanna take their sleep skills to the next level. Every Monday I send out the Sleep Obsessions newsletter, which aims to be one of the most obsessive newsletters on the planet.
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