Dr. Bill Andrews is a renowned scientist, molecular biologist, and leading expert in longevity research. He earned his Ph.D. in Molecular & Population Genetics in 1981 and has spent decades advancing the science of aging, cancer, and telomere biology. Best known for leading the discovery of telomerase, the enzyme closely linked to cellular aging, Dr. Andrews holds more than 50 patents and has been featured in Popular Science, The Today Show, The Doctors, and numerous documentaries on life extension. As the founder of Sierra Sciences, Dr. Andrews continues to develop innovative approaches to support healthy aging through telomere research and nutritional science. Outside the lab, he is an avid ultramarathon runner whose passion for health and longevity reflects both his personal lifestyle and lifelong commitment to extending healthspan through science.
Dr. Bill Andrews is a renowned scientist, molecular biologist, and leading expert in longevity research. He earned his Ph.D. in Molecular & Population Genetics in 1981 and has spent decades advancing the science of aging, cancer, and telomere biology. Best known for leading the discovery of telomerase, the enzyme closely linked to cellular aging, Dr. Andrews holds more than 50 patents and has been featured in Popular Science, The Today Show, The Doctors, and numerous documentaries on life extension.
As the founder of Sierra Sciences, Dr. Andrews continues to develop innovative approaches to support healthy aging through telomere research and nutritional science. Outside the lab, he is an avid ultramarathon runner whose passion for health and longevity reflects both his personal lifestyle and lifelong commitment to extending healthspan through science.
SHOWNOTES:
😴 Why does sleep help slow the aging process?
😴 What happens when inflammation quietly speeds up aging?
😴 How could telomeres influence your long-term health?
😴 Why might exercise improve both sleep and longevity?
😴 What simple mind trick helps quiet bedtime worries?
😴 Could a digital recorder help you fall asleep faster?
😴 How can self-hypnosis calm a racing mind?
😴 Why should consistency matter more than perfection?
😴 What makes stress harder to carry into bedtime?
😴 Could tracking your sleep reveal hidden health clues?
😴 Why does better recovery support healthier aging?
😴 How can daily habits improve sleep for years?
😴 Interested in exploring additional longevity support?
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Welcome to the Sleep Is a Skill podcast. My name is Mollie Eastman, and I am the founder of Sleep Is a Skill, a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability, and behavioral change. As an ex-sleep sufferer turned sleep course creator, I am on a mission to transform the way the world thinks about sleep.
Each week, I'll be interviewing world-class experts ranging from researchers, doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Ultimately, I believe that living a circadian-aligned lifestyle is going to be one of the biggest trends in wellness, and I'm committed to keeping you up to date on all the things that you can do today to transform your circadian health and, by extension, allowing you to sleep and live better than ever before
Welcome back to the Sleep Is a Skill podcast. Longevity isn't built decades from now, it's built tonight. Today, I'm joined by Dr. Bill Andrews, one of the world's leading longevity researchers and the scientist behind the discovery of telomerase. And no affiliation whatsoever, by the way. We explore why sleep may be one of the most powerful tools for healthy aging, how our daily habits influence cellular health, and what science is teaching us about living not just longer, but better.
If you're interested in extending both your lifespan and your healthspan, this is an episode you won't want to miss. So tune in, stay curious, and see what shifts for you. And if this conversation resonates, share it with someone who's passionate about better sleep and healthy aging. Remember, every day begins with a great night's sleep.
And welcome to the Sleep Is a Skill podcast. We are blessed to have our guest joining us today in the midst of a snowstorm, you know, really taking one for the team here. And but I can already tell, before we hit record, we have a plethora of things to discuss in today's episode. So our only challenge, kind of per usual, this often happens on this episode, is how to, you know, cram it all into one container.
So Bill, thank you so much for taking the time to be here. I'm glad I could make it here, given the conditions of weather. Me too. And I know we might have to pause at some point possibly to help you with, you know, you got... Your people are plowing around you. It's a whole thing happening over there. So really, I, I appreciate- Snowplow's right outside my window right now.
That's exactly right. Yeah. Well, this shows your commitment to helping educate people on various aspects of health and wellbeing, and I know we'll be honing in a bit on certainly sleep, but you have a unique angle into how you're thinking about these topics. So maybe we'll just start at the beginning on how you found yourself as this expert in your area of work.
Well, my area of work is actually aging. Yeah. That's always been my obsession from the day I was 10 years old, when my father, uh, actually, when he learned from my s- teachers at school that I was really interested in science and medicine. He said... He came to me and said, "Bill, when you grow up, you should become a doctor and find a cure for aging."
And so my father got... put that seed in my head, and I've been obsessed with that subject my entire life since. Uh, all through high school and college, I was the guy starting anti-aging clubs, uh, tre- trying to figure out- W- what aging is, why we age, how we age, that kind of stuff, so that we can eventually do something about it.
Um, but, uh, you know, my father would go to anti-aging conferences with me. He's a television producer. He was making documentaries on the subject. He unfortunately passed away over 10 years ago now, and I'm just... And, and from an aging-related disease. You know, Alzheimer's. He passed away from Alzheimer's. And- Oh, wow.
It's just like, it's just taking too long. And that's another subject that I talk about all the time is why? Why, why is... What's taking so long to cure aging and heart disease and cancer and all these kind of things? Things I've, I've had, played, played a role in all these different diseases. But, um, my focus has always been aging.
Sleep is a very important aspect of aging. Uh, so I've, I've actually, during my career trying to build my arsenal of all the tools I need to study aging, I, I ended up getting a degree in experimental psychology also Only because I learned that being a biology major, they don't teach you how to be a scientist.
Uh, and so when I con- complained to the counselors at UC San Diego, they said, "Well, go into experimental psychology. They really put an emphasis on teaching how to be a scientist." So I learned things like construct validity and things like that, that most scientists have never even heard of, you know? And that's why most experiments are done incorrectly.
But I, I know I can talk forever, but I- the focus has been, I've been just spending my whole life trying to understand the what, the why, the how of not just aging, but cancer, heart disease, uh, Alzheimer's, dementia, uh, sleep, all that kind of stuff. Uh, I, I mean, I, I actually work in sleep labs. I, in college and stuff like that, I collaborated with some of the top people in the, in the sleep field, like Bill Dement, uh, on studying narcolepsy and things like that.
Wow. I've spent nights watching people sleep while, where they have electrodes hooked to their heads and keeping track of their REM sleep and stuff like that. But my s- my in- interest has always been how does this affect aging and things like that, and just trying to understand the what and the why and the how of all these different things that make us human, so.
I love that. And I've already seen from you, just in your sharing of these things that light you up, this kind of going big and starting at the why. Like, why, why do we age? Why do we sleep? Why are these things the way they are? Which I so appreciate, 'cause sometimes people just kind of take these things for granted as if...
And we don't know. I mean, the, one of the best-selling books in the area of sleep is literally called Why Do We Sleep? And it kind of still leaves a lot of question marks at the end of all that we don't know. So I feel like some of the wisest people I ever encounter are beginning at the why. So when you think about this why, when we talk about aging and sleep, how are you thinking about these two topics in particular?
Well, I think about the why because I don't like to have to sleep. I love my work. You know? Yeah. I, I, all this studying medicine, I wish I never ha- didn't have to stop and go to sleep. Um, plus I also don't, like when I'm preparing for conferences or I'm speaking at conferences and things like that, I don't wanna have to say, "Well, I gotta get eight hours of sleep before I speak so that I'm alert during my- Yes
things. I'd, I'd like to just never have to sleep. But that's, it's like the why. Yeah. I mean, it's like makes no sense, but all animals sleep, so there has to be something, there has to be a why, and, uh, we can talk about that in some details, and I still don't understand why. Yeah, exactly. Like, there's a lot of correlations between like circadian rhythms and, uh, d- different hormone productions and stuff like that that occur during sleep.
But why didn't, why couldn't we have evolved a way to have all that stuff happen without sleeping? Mm. You know? That's, that's a big question in my mind all the time. There's something... We, we, there, there's a lot of studies on sleep and why, and a lot of people come up with, "Oh, we sleep to do this, and we sleep to do that."
But in every case, I can say to myself, "Well, why, why couldn't we have done, evolved a way to do those things without sleeping?" Mm. It still- Boggles the mind. It is. Yeah. Okay. And so this kind of question of we're at odds with the sleep-wake cycle, this diurnal kind of rhythm of as human beings being active by day and at rest at night, thus far, so far in our evolution.
So what have you seen if you are looking to help support people in this aging journey and seeing this kind of inextricable relationship between sleep and aging? And how are you thinking about this area in particular? Well, despite what a lot of studies say, 'cause there's a lot of mixed opinions, I believe that sleep is very important.
I don't understand why, but I do know that if you don't get a good night's sleep, you induce a lot of inflammation, a lot of, uh, oxidative stress, and all those things accelerate the aging process. So one of the key ways, the way we exist now, and I'd like to figure out a way to solve this problem, is to slow down the aging process as much as possible.
You need to get really good sleep. And so that's a big emphasis on my part. I always, whenever I finally say to myself, "I have to go to sleep," I always look at the time. Sometimes I even speak into my digital recorder so I know what time I went to sleep, so I make certain I get seven to eight hours of sleep- Sure
uh, to get up in the morning. Um, but, um- But only because I realize that it slows down the aging process to get a really good night's sleep. Um, and, uh, uh, I mean, but that's, that's, that's what, that's why I, I sleep, really. Yes, exactly. And what's so interesting for me about sleep is that not to have some sort of, like, fixation on sleep.
Sometimes people are like, "I don't get bored of sleep. Like, come on." But part of my interest, too, is this opportunity to study something that almost can act as sort of this check engine light for your overall health and wellbeing so that we can live a great life while we are awake. And to your point, I know even maybe before we hit record, just some of these things that can also affect the quality of our sleep are very much tied to how we're doing overall health-wise and aging-wise, it w- it appears anyway.
And so I'm curious what you've kind of identified as certain things that might bi-directionally support each other. So things that can help you sleep better, and then as we sleep better, it helps us live better. Well, I'm glad you said bi-directional because it is- Yes ... very bi... It's like a tug of war. I mean- Yeah
um, the, the, uh, one of the most important things that I look at in my research is telomeres, the tips of our chromosomes. Um, and they, they affect aging. Um, and I believe it's the number one thing that affects aging. Um- Mm. And, uh, it's like, st- for starters, I don't even know why we haven't evolved a way not to age, but we haven't.
Uh, but we, but for some reason, and, and I think I've, I understand from a species-specific perspective, uh, there's a benefit to actually eliminating the longer-lived after you've raised your young. Mm. 'Cause it actually, by allowing the offspring to reproduce as opposed to you reproducing, uh, it, it, uh, creates more diversity within the species and allows us to survive rapidly changing environments the more diversity there is in the species.
Remember, in order for a species to survive, only a handful of members of the species need to survive rapidly changing environments, and increase in diversity increases that. But that's, I, I... Again, it's like, um, it's like, uh, the telomere is, the shortening of telomeres is the human way of eliminating the longer-lived.
Uh, and uh, uh, so everything we're doing since, uh, in the last, like, 100 years or so like that, 'cause usually we passed away- Shortly after we've finished raising our young. Now we're living a lot longer and that it's all because of things humans are doing to invent ways to undo the, the, or figure out the ways to solve the problems where evolution failed us and as in- individuals.
Um, but, uh, yeah, so telomeres is something I look at. I... There is a lot of studies showing a correlation between telomere length. T- I think, let me spend more time on telomeres. Telomeres- Yeah, please ... 'cause telomeres- We haven't really spent much time on this podcast on this topic, so this is wonderful opportunity to do that.
When I... So my father, I said, got me interested in aging. And- Yeah ... during my anti-aging clubs, especially in college, um, and I had some future Nobel Prize winners that were in that club. Like, how do we age? Why we age was still a question, but how do we age? Yeah. Something... And there, there had been a study done, published in 1961 by Leonard Hayflick, that showed that human cells can only divide a c- certain number of times.
We're limited. The, our cell division is limited, so we shouldn't age if we could constantly re- be repairing damage to our cells. But because of the fact that we can't constantly repair damage by cell division, uh, means that we do age. And so we would focus on that fact that we, ourselves, can only divide a s- limited number of times.
And the question was, how do our cells know how many times they have divided and how many more times they can divide? And, uh, cells don't have brains. Uh, uh, what kind of mechanism could e- exist inside of cells that would, our human cells, that would keep track? And the best we could come up with was something, there had to be something like, this is gonna sound silly, but ride tickets at an amusement park, okay?
There's so- I love it, okay. You know, you, you go to an amusement park, your mother gives you a bunch of tickets, and you go on a ride and you lose a ticket, and you go on another ride, you lose another ticket. And you can always look at the number of tickets and count how many there are, and how many, you know how many rides you've been on and how many rides you have left.
So, so the question was, where are these ride tickets in the human cell? I mean, and so we, and then, like years later in the 1990s, I discovered that these ride tickets are found at the very tips of our chromosomes. They're called telomeres. We're conceived, when we're conceived as a single cell, we have 100 ride tickets.
By the time we're born, we've already used up 50 of those ride tickets, so we have 50 left. And then when we use our last ticket, we die of old age. Uh, and, uh, this is a hard, fast... I mean, people who... This is not a theory, this is an absolute fact. Uh, I'm surprised that more people don't address this. But anybody working on, with human cells in Petri dishes, studying human cellular biology, know that when they go to a vendor to buy cells, the catalog will list, will, will list things like the cell lines, how old was the donor that provided these cells, and how many times have these cells divided since being obtained from the donor.
And therefore, you can calculate how many cell divisions you'll have to work with before your cells are no longer useful for your experiments. And the more cell divisions that remain, the more you pay for them. So everybody knows that human cells can only divide a certain number of times, and therefore inside our bodies too, we can't repair damage indefinitely, and so we age.
So, um, that's what I've been working on. A- and this whole ph- philosophy, uh, I don't wanna say theory, but this whole idea that our cells number is limited had one big fallacy to it, and that's if our cells can only divide a limited number of times, how do we reproduce? How do, how do... 'Cause that requires cell division.
How come our children are born with, uh, uh, longer telomeres and more, more cell divisions th- than we have? Or they, they, they're born with the same number of cell divisions we had when we were born. How did that happen? So I, I, back in the 1990s, I was studying, um- Reproductive cells to find out how is it that reproductive cells don't have a limit on their lifespan.
And I ended up leading a research team that discovered the enzyme telomerase that is found in our reproductive cells, that, uh, uh, every time our reproductive cells divide, they do lose a ride ticket, but then telomerase adds the ride tick-ticket back in a two-step process. And, uh, so the fact that our reproductive cells had a gene...
Uh, uh, the fact that they produced telomerase mean that they have a gene that produces telomerase, and therefore, if our reproductive cells have that gene, every cell in our body has the gene And the gene is just shut off. And I think I mentioned before, th-this is the reason humans shut off this telomerase gene is to, to get rid of the longer-lived after we raise our young, because it's evolutionary advantage to the species to get, to eliminate the longer-lived.
I, I don't like using old, uh, because life's about living, not getting old. I like that. Yes. The, uh, uh, so we, we, we eliminate the longer-lived by shutting off that telomerase gene, and then the number of cell divisions that remain afterwards provide us with n- just enough life to actually reproduce our young.
And then afterwards, everything is downhill except for what we've done in the last 100 years to make it so that we can live healthier longer, uh, by other mechanisms. But, but yeah, but, uh, so, so I've been trying to figure out, uh, understand, I mean, understand telomerase, how to turn the gene back on. Uh, and we've done a lot of research.
We are the only research group in the world to actually, uh, turn old mice into young mice again. Um, and that, that was... But, but that was by a s- technique called telomerase gene therapy, where instead of turning the gene back on, we delivered a new gene to the body of the mice. And, uh, uh, and so it's not the kinda thing we wanna do with humans because it's risky and extremely expensive.
But we've been working on trying to find ways of, like, molecules of, especially nutraceuticals that people can take that can get inside of our cells and turn the gene back on, that we have turned off. Uh, you know, s- s- sort of strumming our nose to evolution. Uh, and, um, so, so we, that's what we've been doing.
And we have discovered a lot of, uh, nutraceuticals that do this. Um, we've tested, like, I would say 600,000 different fractions of nutraceuticals using our high throughput robots here at Sierra Sciences. That's the name of my company that I founded 25 years ago. Um, so we, we've tested a lot of things. Out of the 600,000 different fractions of plant extracts, we've only found 50 that will do that.
And, uh, the top five are... Uh, the, the most potent one we've ever found is a fraction of turmeric root, uh, that, uh, is actually missing curcumin. Uh, and curcumin's important, so we, you know, anybody who goes to take... Well, you can't take complete turmeric. Y- if you just take turmeric, there's too many molecules in there that's gonna interfere with the process.
So you, so you have to... There's a fraction of turmeric that we found that's lacking curcumin, so people have to get their curcumin from some other source if they wanna, uh, s- get those health benefits. But We, we ended up licensing the top five of the telomerase inducers to a company called Touchstone Essentials, and they created a product called Telovital that contains those things.
And it's available now. Uh, I take it every day. Uh, but it, it's a good way to, uh, at least slow down. T- so I mentioned reproductive cells, they still ha- lose a ticket when the cells divide, then telomerase restores the ticket. Well, so it's a tie. It's like a tug of war inside our reproductive cells, and it's a tie.
This product called Telovital doesn't tie the tug of war yet. It... But it does slow it down. So it's like think of a tug of war with 10 people on the shortening side pulling to shorten your telomeres, and then two people on the lengthening side to lengthen your telomeres. So that's what Telovital is doing.
So it doesn't reverse aging, but it does slow down the aging pro- This is, this is a bottle of it right here, Telovital, uh, sold by Touchstone Essentials. And believe me, that's, that's all the marketing I'll do. I just- Yeah ... I, I just, I'm a big fan of the product. Part of it- Totally ... I invented, I discovered the ingredients.
Yeah. But, uh, and I, I... But I believe in it. And it's just... But I'm continuing my research, trying to find ways of actually com- finding more nutraceuticals that are even more potent. Uh- Hmm ... and hopefully we'll win that tug of war within the next few years. But, uh, but that's all what it... So I believe that all the hallmarks of aging are all kind of dependent upon telomere shortening.
That, you know- Hmm ... given what we know about, as I said, it's not a theory, it's a fact No matter what else we do to try to cure aging, and I use that cure, I mean, by curing aging, I mean extending our lifespans- Yeah ... and our healthspans. Okay? Sure. So, so no matter what we do to try to cure aging, aging is never gonna be cured unless we also solve this telomere shortening problem.
And I think- Mm ... that's what we're doing. We're, we're actually making a lot of headway here. Um, uh- Mm. Yeah ... so all the hallmarks of aging, none of them mean anything unless we solve the telomere shortening problem. And in your estimation, 'cause certainly we have links, I'm just reading a few observational human studies of worse sleep linked with shorter telomeres, uh, short sleep duration, insomnia, particularly in older adults, obstructive sleep apnea, hypoxia, et cetera, seem to have some of these links, just in what I've seen.
And so in your estimation, for someone that's listening and they are looking at all these different possible ways to improve their sleep results, what maybe they're tracking on Whoop band or Oura Ring or certain thing or Garmin or what have you, and they're looking to improve their numbers, or maybe not even tracking and they're just...
Okay, there we go. Exactly. I, I, I have two s- two sleep- Avid tracker here. Okay. Yeah, trackers are- Two sleep trackers, exactly. Uh-huh, totally, I know. I've been in the tracking game for ages as well, so it's so wild and you see so many... And some people getting like bowled over by the information. And then there might be people listening and they're not even tracking, they're just simply, they're exhausted or they're tired or they're looking to improve their sleep.
So from where you're sitting, do you feel like this could be a particular lens to explore, is this telomere length and how to improve it? Yes. I believe that telomere length is very important for- Okay ... sleep quality, and I think sleep quality is very important for telomere length. Yeah. And if, if people do, like scientists that might be listening to this call do a lot of searches in PubMed and things like that, they're gonna find studies, especially one that came out about less than five years ago by, uh, Debbie Sobol in Australia, where she concluded that the- There's really no correlation between telomere length and sleep.
Um, but that's because she, she just did a meta-analysis. Uh, and, uh, there's a lot of bad studies out there. And I, I think the, the big mistake in trying to... In the studies, research studies that have been done on relationship between telomere length and sleep, is that they only looked at the telomere lengths in the blood, okay?
Whereas what people need to focus on is the telomere lengths in the brain, especially the hypothalamus. And, I mean, how do you measure telomere length there? That's, that's pretty... That would be pretty invasive. But that, that is a fact. So we really can't conclude anything really- Yeah ... unless we start finding ways to measure telomere lengths in the hypothalamus.
And not, not, not just in the hypothalamus, but, like, glia cells, neurons, they, they all play roles in our sleep. Uh, like oligodendrocytes, astrocytes, these things, they're all healthy. Astrocytes, oligodendrocytes, glia cells, neurons, they're, they're all correlated with good sleep, um, and vice versa. So, but nobody's doing any of those measurements.
But I believe, okay, despite what the literature might say, is that anything that increases inflammation or increases oxidative stress is gonna accelerate wear and tear on cells, especially div- neurons don't divide, but they still, they still have suffer from telomere shortening in, by oxidative stress from free radicals.
But we have to figure out ways of decreasing inflammation and, uh, oxidative stress to help with aging. But, like, like I'm getting myself off subject here, but- I love it. Yeah ... keeping telomeres long actually helps reduce inflammation and oxidative stress. Mm. But also oxidative stress and inflammation cause accelerated telomere shortening.
So, but I believe keeping telomeres long does help with sleep. Uh, we just don't have the science to be able to prove it yet. Sure. And I just believe if, if inflammation and oxidative stress are such important players here. Yeah, absolutely. So I, I believe keeping telomeres long, and Telavital that I just mentioned is the best way to, the best affordable way to do that right now.
There is something called telomerase gene therapy that's in clinical studies, but that costs like half a million dollars to get treated once. Mm. Oh, wow. So that's gonna be, it's also gonna be 10 to 12 years before it's ever approved. Sure. If it ever gets- Wow. Okay. But, uh, yeah The, the connections are just astronomical in my opinion.
But I- Mm ... I just believe that doing everything to keep your telomeres long is gonna help with sleep, and sleep is gonna help keep your telomeres long. Yeah. Well said. Okay. So well, one of the things we've seen is that when we have people on the show and we ask about how they're kind of managing their own sleep and health, then we can often kinda get a window into some of the things that you might be doing, like you mentioned some of the things you're already taking and certain things.
And then often people are like, "Ooh, okay, this is maybe something I could be bringing into my life," or maybe a new way of looking at this area. So everyone that does come on, we ask them a few questions, and the first one is just always, what is your nightly sleep routine looking like right now? And if that does include certain, like supplements or what have you, any of that, let us know.
I've never really had sleep problems myself. Yeah But I do believe in the value of it, just to keep alert. I, I measure the mo- e- even though I just showed I wear two tr- sleep trackers. Yes. And I, I'm always pleased to see that it comes back with excellent. Uh- Okay. I like that ... I, I don't, I don't, I don't take any supplements specifically for the purpose of sleep.
Sure. But I do, I do, I do certain habits. Like, I mean, um, I, well I... One thing I don't... I, I work out in a gym every day, okay? Sure. I have my gym here at work. Mm. But I, I never work out just before going to sleep, because when I do that, I can never... I have a really hard time sleeping. So I just always- Yeah ... make sure to do it early enough.
Um, I, I, I do drink coffee, as you've probably seen . Yes. Totally. And I don't drink, don't drink coffee at night. And, uh- Oh, yeah, I love my stimulants . Yeah. And, uh, uh... But, uh, yeah, uh, it's like, um- Uh, I, I, I kind of play mind tricks on myself so when, when I... If I'm going to sleep and I'm really bothered by some stressful bill that's due and, like, um, like maybe I, I've upset the landlord and the landlord's gonna evict me or something like that.
Yeah. Think of worst case scenarios that have occurred in the last 20 years. Uh- Totally, yep ... you know, I, I, I just tell myself to start thinking of something that, something else. Yeah. Get my brain thinking about something else, and then the next thing I know I wake up. Yes. Uh, and, uh- Distraction techniques.
Yeah. Yeah. So, so I, I mean, I, I have a lot of tricks, but I, I, I've had a lot of experience even though my subject has been aging. In, in experimental psychology when I was in college- Mm ... I did a lot of sleep studies. I studied sleep a lot, so I ended up learning a lot of tricks- Mm ... just mental tricks that most people don't know of, and that's, you know, fooling your mind into thinking about something else.
Sure. Uh, I'm trying to think of what else do I do. Um, I, I, I do... I, I learned self-hypnosis when I was- Mm-hmm ... still in college. Uh, and I- Great ... I'm really good at it, and so I can... I g- I... If, if I decided that I needed to sleep right now, I could s- do self-hypnosis and I'll be asleep in 30 minutes from now. Um, the, the- Wow
it, it's like those kind of things. And, you know, I just read one really good book on s- on, on self-hypnosis a long time ago, and it's been something... I mean, I, I wanna say 50 years ago I read that. What? Do you remember what it was called by any chance or, or any- No, I can't remember 'cause it was when- Okay ... I was in college.
But, uh, it's just something, you know, it's just really just thinking about relaxing every part of your body one part of your body at a time, and things like that. Sure. Next thing you know, you're waking up. Um- I love it ... the, uh... Un- I, I have had my bout of sleep apnea kind of things. Mm, mm-hmm. And, uh, there's tricks for doing that, but the problem is, is that th- that was a particularly challenging thing 'cause I could always fall asleep- But then I'd wake up 30 minutes later and I would...
I got into a habit of actually recording my sleep with sleep digital recorders. Sure. And so I would, I could tell when I went to sleep by when the sleep apnea would start, and I would find out that sometimes I was only asleep for one minute- Mm ... you know, before I woke up again. So, but I don't know. I, I, I, I never figured out what causes sleep apnea in me, but they would just be temporary and go away.
Mm. So, like, sometimes last for, like, only a few days, so it's never been a major problem with me, but I do... I don't understand. I don't have a solution- Sure ... to how to, how to stay asleep when you have sleep apnea problems. Um. Yeah. And have you seen yours flare up at altitude in some of your, kinda, travels and what have you?
Well, no, actually. But I, I've run ultramarathons at 18,000 feet elevation. Uh, you know, like one called La Ultra The High. Mm. Both me and my wife have done 'em several times. Uh, and, uh, so, but I, I train for sleep altitude. You know, I, I- Mm ... I acclimate sleep to altitude, and I sleep actually really well at high altitude.
So I- Great ... I, I know other runners can't sleep, and- Yeah ... they have problems, but I think it's, they probably just probably didn't acclimate enough. I, I use- Mm ... a device, I wanna, I try and remember the, a handheld breathing device- Mm-hmm God. USA something. I'm, I'm... If, if the company that markets the product heard me not remember the name, they'd be really upset with me.
Well, if you- But we're figuring it out ... if it comes to you, let us know. We can always include it in the show notes. But yeah, I, I, I will. I will, I will absolutely do that. I- Yeah ... but I, like for instance, every time I go to the Himalayas- Mm ... I will spend a month beforehand with this, uh, breathing apparatus to get acclimated.
And as soon as I get there, I can go to 18,000 feet and run, run without any problems. Mm-hmm. Even run uphill without any problems. Mm. I'll find other people up there lying on the ground because they, they haven't acclimated. Um, so but yeah. Wow. Um, but that, so acclimation to high altitude is something real important.
Ugh, very cool. Well, yeah, if you do, um, if that, if you do find out what that is, definitely let me know and we'll add that in, 'cause altitude is a big hit for a lot of people with their sleep, for sure. Uh-huh. There's been rumblings the past few years, of course with AI on the scene, of being able to the same way that we can kind of approximate biological age versus chronological age, looking at our sleep age is something that is, uh, kind of developing in the, kind of the sleep community by using AI.
And so getting results kind of as you spoke to, and getting to observe in sleep labs some of the results of someone that's all hooked up, and then getting all their data and then starting to see, okay, what age of a sleeper are they looking like? So you could say you're like 25, but you're sleeping like a 55-year-old or what have you, right?
Is the concept. And the part of what I've been able to extrapolate of how they're looking at that is certain signatures of what tend to happen as we age with our sleep. Particularly a big one seem to be sleep fragmentation and, you know, kind of more awakenings and more shallow sleep as we age. And so it just makes perfect sense and from where I'm sitting from just a, you know, logical standpoint of aging, the more that we could facilitate this almost, you know, reversing of potentially of age or at least stalling, the more that could help with the sleep conversation and all of it being that bi-directional component.
So makes a lot of sense, and I'm so happy you're on the case. All right. Let me make one little tangent comment. Please. Okay. So you said AI is on the scene. Yeah. I... It's, it's just really become a new buzzword. Okay? Yeah. Oh, totally. I, I was specializing in artificial intelligence back in the 1970s. I took, uh, when I was at UC San Diego in my psychology program, I took every course there was called Artificial Intelligence.
Sure. This is not a new thing. And I, I use AI here a lot at my company. I've written a lot of AI on my, my computers do AI, but it's really just- S- people like Alex Zhavoronkov has turned that into a buzzword to make AI into a new business. Uh, and I'm good friends with his. He, he and I were keynote speakers at a conference in, I wanna say 2016, when he was first trying to start his business.
But it, it's, um, um, it, it's, it's just a, something that's just gotten better as a function of Moore's Law, just like anything else with computers. So, but- Certainly ... yeah, AI- Improvement. AI has been a very valuable tool. I've been using it since the 1970s, and it's gotten better and better and better. And we write our own AI here at Sierra Sciences.
Uh, and it's just am- amazing the things we can do with AI now. Absolutely. And the only reason I call that out is that that's, at least in these reports that have been coming out over the past few years of how they could be able to quantify the sleep age, w- how the reliance being on AI to make sense of all this rich amount of data, and so how to spit that out.
But yes, and, and it is interesting too, over the past few years, sometimes you'll see people throw out AI just because it sounds good. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like, "Oh, we have a new startup and it's built on AI." And certainly we're seeing that across the board, but it seemed like there's often a lot of that even when it maybe wasn't, or really understanding it thoroughly.
So, you know. Yeah, there was even a movie called AI before even AI became common. But it w- it's- Yes. Okay. But- So back to our subject. Uh- Yeah. So did we get real capturing of your evening sleep routine? What'd you think? Oh no, we didn't. Okay. So I just have a rule of, you know, keeping track of when I go to sleep and if I wake up sometimes and I'm wondering, "Boy, have I had, had eight hours of sleep?"
I'll listen to my digital recorder. 'Cause I always tell my digital recorder what time I'm going to sleep. Yes. And so if I haven't had eight hours of sleep, I just go back to sleep. Okay? Um, and, uh, uh, exceptions are when I suddenly realized that we had three feet of snow last night and I gotta dig the snow outta my driveway in order to get to this podcast in time.
So I didn't get eight hours of sleep last night. Totally. Yeah. I probably got six hours of sleep. Um, but the, um- 'Cause I, I forced myself to get up so I could not be late for this podcast. Oh, well I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you for that. But, uh, you know, I don't really do, uh, very much. I just, I, I, I personally have not had sleep problems.
Yeah. I've done sleep studies on myself. I've gone... I've, I, I'm fine. I'm- Mm-hmm ... I never have any problems. I've, I, I said I had my bouts with sleep apnea, but- Mm ... they've been only temporary, and- Mm-hmm ... never figured out what brought them on or what made them go away. Hmm. Um, but, uh, yeah, it's like, uh, I do understand the value of sleep.
Um, and maybe that's part of why I sleep so well is because I recognize how important it is. Yeah. No, it does make a lot... And that's really part of the intention, too. 'Cause interestingly, with optimizing sleep, so much of it, it's like a Trojan horse. You know, you come in at it from improving sleep and sleep metrics potentially, but really, commonly, in order to support it, we're looking at our days.
We're looking at how we're living our lives. Are we as active as you are? Are we getting to the gym? Are we, you know, enriched and having a passion, and all of these sort of things, and that ends up, you know, spilling in. Now, that's oversimplified, but certainly a big portion is by day and how healthy we are to support the ecosystem of sleep.
And that's something I've always been very health-oriented. I've- Yeah ... always, I've... People say that when longer lived people are big into running, that means they started later in life running, but I've been running my entire life. I've- Mm ... competed in track and cross-country in high school and college, and things like that, and I'm 74 now, and I still run every day.
Wow. I'm, I'm, I actually, I, I, I'm not a b- I, I'm a believer that there is so mu- no such thing as too much exercise. Mm. Uh, it's just how intense it can be. Sure. So this is, I, I do speak at- Like running conferences and things like that a lot. And- Yeah ... so I, I do talk about how, you know, a lot of people say you shouldn't run every, every day.
You should run every other day, or work out every... You shouldn't work out every day, like weightlifting. You should do it every other day. There's not a single peer-reviewed study that's ever proven that. Um- Yeah ... I mean, I... If you, if you go to, like, there's a website where they keep track of running streaks, how many days of running do you do?
And there's people that have run 50 years without missing a single day. Uh- Mm. I'm up to a little over six years now, okay? Wow. And that's only because I, I accidentally missed a day six years ago. But my father got me i- my father, I'm... My father's always been an inspiration to me. Uh- Mm ... he did pass away 10 years ago, but- Awe
he, he one day called me up and said, "I just ran every day for a year." And I thought, "Well, I gotta do, uh, do that." So next year I ran every day plus one, one more day- ... just to beat him. Total. But then, then afterwards I got so out of shape. It's like I said, I started thinking, "I wish I had my running streak back."
So I started- Mm ... running streak again, and I found out that's one of the best things you can do to keep exercising. Uh, and also with working out of the gym, don't do it every other day. Do it every day. Make it a- Yeah ... make it a thing that you'd be having a very depressed if you suddenly realize you've missed a day and your streak starts over from zero.
Ooh. Uh, it, it's- Love that. I'm a big fan- I would- ... of streaks, so that's great. Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, and so I even, even when I run an ultramarathon, I, I will... 'Cause you gotta taper, you know? So I just run slow, you know? Mm. Um, and, uh, so I think it's... I, I often, when I speak at, about exercise I'll say- It's important to keep it fun and be consistent.
Okay? Yeah. So I encourage people to exercise every day, but keep it fun, okay? And keep it adventurous. I like, I'm a trail runner, and so I like to look for new trails to run as a way to keep it adventurous. And I, if I see a coyote, I will follow that coyote, and it'll take me places though no humans have ever been.
And so it's, it gives me adventures and things like that. Cool. Those are what I p- tell people at running conferences, ways to keep from being bored- Mm ... from run- uh, and uh... But it, I think it's real important. So, and I also say if it quits being fun, quit. Mm. Save it for another day. Don't, you don't need to be that marathon runner that wins the race and- Yes
put yourself on your hands and knees throwing up and stiff as a board from inflammation for two weeks. Right. Sure. To be the type of exerciser that you can run a marathon or even run 100 miles, and the next day feel fine. Wow. So I'll work on that. 'Cause you keep- That's amazing ... keep it fun. Yeah. That's so great, especially for those that are often looking to lower their heart rate, improve HRV.
Certainly, big wealth of the research in that area is around exercise as part of the method to improve that, and certainly running. I mean, I've seen really amazing things with different clients that have... 'Cause we work with Oura and Whoop, and we'll see just really interesting changes when people will start bringing, especially running into the conversation and real like, you know, trend-based changes in heart rate and HRV, so...
And respiratory rate. And those, those are very important, okay? Yeah. And I keep track of all those kind of things. I'm, I'm one of these fanatics that keep track of everything. I mean- Yeah ... people keep logs. I keep more logs than anybody on the planet. Love it. Yes. And, uh, so it's, yeah, but I, I, uh- It's great ... I, HRV and things like that are, are really, really important.
Yeah. Okay. Well, then what might we see in your morning, quote-unquote, "sleep routine" with the idea that how you start your day or live your day can impact your sleep? I have a routine. I- I get up, I, I do take supplements and medicines and things like that Sure ... and some that you- you're supposed to take an hour before, like, uh, I can't remember.
The, the- Yeah ... for, for gut health, uh, there's a, you know, a term everybody knows, I'm just going blank on it right now. Yeah. But, yeah, um, uh, I, you know, I'll take those and then I do my exercises. I go into my, I, like, go to work and then- Mm-hmm ... go to my gym, uh, work out in the morning, and then take my other supplements and, uh, then I eat my breakfast at work.
Then I, I never eat at home. I just, 'cause I don't wanna sit a- around at home waiting for the first... There's some medicines you're supposed to take an hour before you eat. Yes. I'd rather be at work while doing that, 'cause I like my work. Yeah, exactly. So I eat my breakfast at work, and then I take my other meds, and then, uh Uh, then I f- then I spend the day just measuring, keeping track of, like, how cognizant, cognizant I am, cognitively Mm.
Uh, and if I start falling asleep during the middle of the day, I think, "Okay, I did something wrong," which- Mm ... is rare, so I never have that problem. Uh, I keep alert all the time. I, I'm probably gonna, because of the shoveling snow this morning, I'm probably gonna be finding myself- Oh, yeah ... up later today. But, uh, I'm not gonna worry about that.
Yes. And plus, I, I have a couch here at work. If I, if I start- Smart ... if I can't stay awake 'cause I'm trying to work, I will go lie down on that couch, and then sleep for an hour, and then be, uh, back with it. And it just dawned on me, another sleep trick I use. Yeah. Especially if I'm, if I'm... Like, the next day I have a presentation at a medical conference or something like that.
Mm. Yeah. If I can't sleep 'cause I'm worried about the presentation, I'll rehearse my talk in my head. Oh, that's great. And that puts me to sleep right away . Okay. That, that is a... I just think, well, instead of trying not to think about my sleep, my presentation the next day- Mm-hmm. Like, go right into it ... think about it.
Yeah, think about it. Yeah. Next thing I know, I'm dead asleep. I and not because my talks are so boring, but because of the fact that I tri- I trick my brain into thinking about something that's, that, you know, I'm gonna do, that I'm gonna enjoy. Mm. Not, not so much something that I'm gonna, uh, that's gonna cause me any kind of stress.
Oh, that's great. I, I don't know. Thank you. That was a guess as to why that works, but it works. No, I appreciate that, 'cause, um, a kind of anticipatory anxiety of, like, you know, what's coming or, you know, even if excitement, you know, or whatever it is, the kind of future tripping about those things, or I'm gonna miss the flight or whatever, that could be really helpful to have any strategies for people so that they don't feel at the effect of that.
So I really appreciate that. That's great. Awesome. But I love how you set up a structure by day too, with the, the couch and the... You know, so you just got things handled in the event that you, you know, need to kind of reset. Anything else we might have missed there? No. Yeah, in fact, I don't know why, 'cause it's been s- so many years since this has been a factor for me, but- Yeah
a lot of different things. Like, something I really put an emphasis in, but I kind of forgot exactly why until just now. Mm. But doing things to maintain sugar levels- Yes ... uh, keeping toxins down, things that they're become such a normal part of my life, uh, that I don't even think about it anymore. But I, but I do take a lot of supplements.
But I think a lot of that has probably contributed to my sleep quality because of the fact that I- Try to maintain good health, uh- 100%. It's a top priority. And you know, something else, I do have an identical twin brother, okay? What? That... Yeah, and he has not at all been health-oriented like I have been, okay?
Mm-hmm. And, uh, he, he went into the computer field where I went into medical, and I, I kind of consider medical to be a computer field anyway because- Sure ... DNA is like a computer anyway, or- Yes ... a computer program. Um- And he, he suffers from a lot of problems, okay? I'm not gonna mention his name or anything like that- Yeah
'cause I don't want people going and Googling him and stuff like that. But- Yeah ... um, he looks like, even though pictures of us side by side from 30 years ago, he and I can't even tell who's who, we look so identical. But now, there's a tremendous difference in our appearance, our health style. Mm. Uh, l- look, feel, and behave differently, you know?
It's like those are the- Yeah ... two, three measurements. Like, there, there's- Oh, that's fascinating. What a, what a- There is no measurement of aging. There is no measurement of aging. The only- Yeah ... w- I, I, I say the only measurement is actually what I call the Betty White test. We know looking at pictures of Betty White when she was 25 and 85, we know which photos were taken first.
Yeah. But we don't know why exactly. Mm, the Betty White test. I love that. That's incredible too for someone with your passion for aging, and then to have an identical twin, that is amazing. Yeah. I think fate just did that for me. I mean, it's like, uh, it's like it was meant to be just so I would have a negative control.
Yeah. That's exactly right. Wow. Yeah, and I love that you mentioned blood sugars, and Oura recently partnered up with Dexcom, and, you know, their continuous glucose monitors, and to the tune of around 75 million, really helping to demonstrate the connection between metabolic health and sleep health. So yes, yes, yes.
You know, I don't really get into promoting products, but I- Yeah ... I just gotta say that in terms of sugar levels, one of the best things I've ever seen for people that just cannot not eat sugar is this product from the same company that makes TeleVital. It ... They, they have- Yeah ... GlucoControl, uh, which is a product which I am just blown away with.
It, it actually is something... If you have to eat that cake and stuff like that, you just take some pills of GlucoControl. It converts the sugar into fiber, okay? Oh. Sugar is bad for you. Fiber is good for you. Um- Oh my God. Y- That's wild. It, it- Like- Hush Stone has a, an array of products that's unlike anything I...
That's why I like working with them. They- Mm. I, I, uh, you know, at least I've licensed my discoveries for TeleVital to them. But- Yeah ... I, I like their other products too. I, I take them. Sure. Uh, I've found- Wow. Very cool. Yeah, 'cause- I think it contributes to my sleep. Absolutely. It's such a big factor, and so many people that have wake-ups throughout the course of the night, when we put CGMs on them, and then we see, oh, okay, that's also when their blood sugar's crashing, and there's correlations between, even if they often will wake up, or if they don't wake up, just the quality of their sleep being impacted.
So really cool. I use CGMs all the time, but- Yeah ... because I, I like monitoring things, but I'm, I'm always fine. I mean- You're always fine. Yeah. 'Cause you're doing the work. You're doing- Yeah ... the work by day. So good. Okay, and then what might we see on your nightstand or in your sleep environment? I mean, a lot of people say you're not supposed to sleep with your phone, but I do Mm-hmm.
I just always put my digital recorder, And my phone- Yes ... next to my bed. Uh, and, uh, because sometimes if I do wake up and I'm worried about something, I just like to look at my phone to make certain that everything's okay, and then, then put my phone down, and I can fall right back to sleep again. Uh, but I, I hate having to get up and find my phone to, to verify if there's anything important that I've missed or something like that.
So I, I do sleep with my phone, whereas everybody says you shouldn't. Yeah. That's my nightstand. I, I do, of course, keep the lights out, which is- Yes ... what you want to do. Um- Totally. Well, often too, we've s- we see that trend all the time too, when things are really handled by day, health is in check, stress level's in check, all those things, then we're not relying on things in our environment in the same way or trying to kind of coax sleep to come.
It's just coming, so. Well, I would say another thing about this digital recorder- Yeah ... oh, my God, this is, like, one of the greatest inventions of all time. If I wake up and I'm suddenly preoccupied by some- Sure ... problem or something like that, that I have to solve- Yes ... I just tell it to my digital recorder.
And then- Great ... I fall asleep, 'cause I know the next morning I can listen to that recorder and r- and then solve the problem then. And that's, that's something that I think really c- I, the more I think about it, I've been doing this... I, I've been doing... I've been sleeping with a digital recorder for 30 years, okay?
Mm. I just forgot that that's one of the tricks I use. Uh- That's great ... how to tell your problems to yourself. Yes. Yes. That action is big. Yeah. You can go to sleep and, and solve the problems when you wake up. So I recommend everybody, get a digital recorder. When you got some problem that you really need to solve, you can't stop thinking about it, just get a dig- speak it into a digital recorder and worry about it in the morning.
Oh, that's so good. I mean, that's absolutely... It's so in alignment with what we see in the sleep world, especially with insomnia, of kind of a brain dump or kind of journaling, getting it out. But there's even, you could argue, something potentially more visceral by saying it and then hearing it in your own voice the next day to really kind of get that action taken of declaring, you know, what you're gonna work on or what you're gonna deal with or figure out the next day.
So really cool. Love that. This is really, uh, I've- off subject, but the way... I, I mean, so when, when I'm out running ultra-marathons and stuff like that, I'm always having the best thinking. So I think it's blood rushing through my brain is really getting my mind going. Sure. I have all these really super great ideas.
And I remember running a 50-mile race in the 1990s called the s- um, California 50 in Santa Rosa, California. Mm. And I suddenly had a s- brilliant idea about my research in aging. And I, I remember thinking to myself, "I always have these great ideas when I'm running, but I always forget what they are by the time I get done."
And because I get so many ideas, I can't remember what they are. So I, I came into an aid station, I started yelling, "Does anybody have a cell phone?" This is before big- everybody carried iPhones and stuff like that. Yeah. And somebody said they do have a phone, so I borrowed the phone. I called my, uh, voice recorder at work.
I told my voice recorder at work the idea And then continued on my run, and then blow me out, I could not remember what it was later, but when I got to work and listened to my voice recorder, it actually made a big impact on my research, and I was glad I remembered it. But I ended up deciding to start carrying digital recorders with me when I run ultramarathons, and, uh, I would literally finish a race and have 100 recordings to myself, and when I'd listen to the recordings, I would always think, "Oh my God, I am so brilliant when I'm out running."
Yeah. But I forgot. So now I, I never go running- Without it ... and I, I go to sleep without my digital recorder. Oh my God, I love it. That's amazing. So cool. Now I think about it, I think that's one of the best secrets to my sleep quality ever. Okay? And, and just- That's great. Yeah, because we're seeing a big uptick too for people with, um, those kind of voice journaling.
You know, 'cause like there's all these programs to then be able to have like whisper sync and all these things, but you can get certain kind of like AI journals, and then you can voice note to it, or different types of journals, and then you can voice note to the journal, and then you can get AI kind of reflection coming back if you wanna have a whole other voice into it.
But the voice piece does seem to becoming something that people are really starting to gravitate more to, and that makes a lot of sense, and you're just a, a pioneer of, uh, before it was starting to come around. That's amazing. Especially now that you, s- voice recordings are searchable. But I used to always start every recording with like the first five seconds was a subject so that when I would screen through all my hundreds of recordings, I could know which ones to listen to in more detail instead of- Smart
spending hours listening to all of them. Oh, I like that. That's really cool. Yeah, I'm sure that's made a big difference for just kind of stress management or project management or excitement management or fulfillment and all kinds of things. So that's great. Cool. Okay, and then the last question, maybe we just answered it, I don't know, is what would you say so far has made the biggest difference in the management of your sleep, or maybe said another way, biggest aha moment in managing your sleep?
You're right, I did answer the question. I am now in hindsight, 'cause I hadn't thought about this factor before. Mm-hmm. In hindsight, I think one of the greatest things I ever did to help with sleep was to have a digital recorder to talk to myself about my problems- Yeah ... that I'm going through in my head at the time, and then deal with them in the morning when I listen to the recording.
I- I think that's been a major thing, 'cause I do it a lot. If I wake up- Yeah ... there's some problem I'm thinking about, I just grab my digital recorder and talk to myself. Put- stop the recorder, put it down, go right to sleep, and then listen to it- Mm ... in the morning. And that, I think, is the number one best thing I've ever done That is amazing.
I've never had anyone say that, and it makes all the sense in the world, and it certainly aligns with what we're seeing for people in kind of helping to close the loop on, you know, these stressors enough so that they can sleep or at least bracket it so that they can trust that they'll handle it the next day or what have you.
It's like this action taken versus just stewing and ruminating, so that's wonderful. Yeah. Well, thank you for that. I, I'm, I'm just thinking, boy, I should have published this a long time ago. Yeah. This stuff. Yay! Well, I'm glad I was... I got to be a part of this conversation 'cause that was fantastic, and I think it'll make a big difference for people, so I appreciate it.
Well, we just did publish it because I'm gonna make certain that this podcast gets circulated everywhere where I can get on. I hope you get it circulated everywhere. Aw, absolutely. That's gonna be- Oh, I love this ... I think that's something everybody needs to know. Um- Yeah. So cool, and so accessible, and so something that we could all bring in, and so I really appreciate you sharing that.
And then also even, like, with the infusion in your running and just kind of a, a lifestyle, like a way of managing those things that pop up in our minds so that they're having an outlet. It's really great. Okay, and then lastly, for anyone listening that is thinking, "I need to learn more about this human.
He knows so much. He has so many exciting, different ideas and takes on aging, sleep," and different ways that we could follow your work, your products, your inventions, all of these things, uh, what are the steps that they could do that? We'll of course have it in the show notes, but just direct links or what have you.
Okay. Well, for starters, I do spend a lot of time working in the lab. Okay. But I do like taking breaks, and when I take breaks, I like reading emails and answering questions. Hmm. So I'm really good at responding to people that are asking me questions about health and ex- cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer's, everything.
Wow. Um, I mean, if you look at my track record, you'll find out that I've invented more, uh, biotech breakthroughs than anybody in the world, but it's like- Hmm ... uh, we haven't discussed that at all, but people can conne- so people can email me, and my email address is B as in boy, Andrews, so B-A-M-D-R-E-W-S at Sierra Sci, and that's spelled S-I-E-R-R-A-S-C-I.com.
Sierra Sci is short- Great ... for Sierra Sciences. But my website is www.sierrasci.com, just the same spelling as before. But- I mentioned this company, Touchstone Essentials. They've, they've actually made a big deal about me on their website. Sure. So people can learn a lot about me. But I, I speak at conferences a lot.
There's YouTube videos, hundreds and hundreds of YouTube videos of me talking about the what, the why, the what, why, how, and how not of not just aging, but- Hmm ... cancer, heart disease, any, all kinds of stuff. People can go to those. They're also on my website. Uh, but I'm ... If people like going to conferences, I'm, I'm the keynote speaker at a conference this, in one week from today.
Oh, great. Called the Boston BioLife Conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. Hmm. Um- Amazing. I like that because when I go to these conferences, I have plenty of time to sit down with people and talk with people, answer questions and stuff like that. But I, I don't give the typical talks. That's probably one of the reasons I'm a keynote speaker is I, I, I, I talk about things that nobody else ever talks about.
Hmm. Especially- Yeah ... why the, uh, why do we age? Everybody thinks they know why. There's theories, but I, I don't rely on theories. I give the facts. Mm-hmm. Same with how we age, and then the solutions on how not to age. And even what is aging? I mean, I mean, everybody, everybody thinks they know what aging is, but they, nobody can really tell how, and there's all kinds of companies selling tests to measure your aging.
But they're, they're only correlations with aging. I mean, if they, if, if you could reverse the biomarker of aging, does it, does it reverse aging? No. It just reverses the biomarker. Hmm. So, so we, so I, my gauge of success in trying, in my efforts to try to cure aging process, as I mentioned the Betty White test before People have to look, feel, and behave like they're 25 again, and if they don't, we have not cured aging.
We only, we only cured the biomarker of aging. Mm. And, uh, so I'm not gonna succeed. I'm never gonna say I've cured aging until somebody passes the Betty White, Betty White test. And Betty White was a friend of my family's. My father was a television producer. Oh, cool. She was at my house all the time. Mm. I was good friends with her.
She gave me permission to use her photos and stuff like that for the Betty White test. She was pretty blown away with it, but she was more interested in her pets than, uh ... Like, I'm, I'm, I'm depressed she passed away. I w- I- Aw. I know ... I'm depressed a lot of people have passed away. Yeah. But we're gonna s- can nip that one in the bud eventually, so- Love that
we don't have that problem anymore. Well, I'm excited to have your brain on the case of the topic of aging, and then really grateful to get to have a little bit of your time to see how you're thinking about sleep, and sleep as it relates to aging, or vice versa. And so, you know, really makes a difference, and thanks for sharing some of the things that you're doing, 'cause absolutely those are
Some of the steps, and the recorder, and what have you are wonderful, 'cause people could start that, like, today. So, it's great. Great. I had fun during this podcast. I'm- I did too. Okay. You're in it. All right. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. And then, uh, good luck with the snowstorm as well. All right.
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